Gentoo vs. Debian for server???

shgadwa · Guru Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Posts: 327

Years ago I ran gentoo as my primary OS for my laptop. I liked it. It took a lot of time to install and maintain, but all that work is what helped me learn linux.

I've since mostly used windows and haven't touched linux in 4-5 years. But right now I'm working on building a server. I need it to do several things. It needs to run a xenserver to host a couple virtual machines. I need a file server to store movies and such. And it needs to run a vpn server. I'm trying to decide if I want to use gentoo or debian. When I stopped using linux, I basically promised myself I'd never use gentoo again. Having gentoo as my desktop OS, there was a lot of packages. So there was a lot of time spent updating the system. If I would forget to keep it constantly updated, before you know it there's a couple hundred packages that need to be updated and often portage couldn't figure it out on its own. It became a huge headache.

So now, I want a simple server. It would be nice if it was up to date, but stability is more important. I am going to run it headless and likely won't have any graphics. I like how easy it is to configure a gentoo linux box to be just what I need and nothing more. That was why I've already ruled out Ubuntu Server, I don't want any extra bloatware.

Would you guys recommend Gentoo? Has anything improved since I've last used it?

1clue · Advocate Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569

Don't know how many years ago we're talking about, but:

Gentoo has improved its package management in the years I've been here.
You need to decide how critical downtime is before making any computer purchase/install.
You need a list of priorities
You need to decide how much effort you're willing or able to put into the project.
You need a maintenance plan and stick to it for absolutely any critical server. This includes what to do when it's broken.
Rolling releases (Gentoo) are inherently less stable than non-rolling distros. If your system is critical and your sysadmin judo is broken, then think twice.

A minimal Gentoo box with what you describe will not be nearly as complex to manage as a desktop system.

IMO there are 2 reasons to use Gentoo: You want something specific, and/or you want to learn more about Linux.

If "fire and forget" is at all a priority for your system, then forget Gentoo. It definitely is more hands-on than Debian. It also has more recent software and won't install as much junk you don't want.

Personally I use a bunch of distros in my installs. I do so because there is truly no "one size fits all" even in Linux. Define what's important for this box, and prioritize the list. Include things like availability and reliability and maintenance time. Personally if some distro like Debian or Ubuntu Server will work for me I use that just because of the maintenance time required. That said I still use Gentoo and am glad to do so where nothing else fits.

arnvidr · l33t Joined: 19 Aug 2004 Posts: 629 Location: Oslo, Norway

I don't maintain any servers at the moment, but if my headless box and my laptop are any indication, running the stable branch also dramatically reduces the amount of package updates you have to deal with. My main desktop needs at least weekly updates to mostly avoid huge workloads, but those two boxes are closer to "hands-off" (although gentoo really needs keeping up with).
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comio · Advocate Joined: 03 Jul 2003 Posts: 2191 Location: Taranto

P.Kosunen · Guru Joined: 21 Nov 2005 Posts: 309 Location: Finland

ct85711 · Veteran Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 1791

The biggest thing I would say on having a Gentoo server, is more of how much time you can afford to maintain/update the system on a regular basis. Updating any Gentoo system that is old (based on time since last update) is just asking for problems. As much as I like Gentoo, I do not recommend using it if you can't/won't do regular updates as you are going to encounter more problems that it's worth. Monthly updates for stable branch may be ok (can't say for sure, as I don't know), but stretching it out to every 3-6+ months, you are just going into deeper and rougher waters.

comio · Advocate Joined: 03 Jul 2003 Posts: 2191 Location: Taranto

C5ace · Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 1:34 pm Post subject:

shgadwa:

I used to run a Gentoo / iRedMail mail server as a VirtualBox guest on top of Gentoo until iRedMail dropped support of Gentoo.

Now it's Debian / ISPConfig as a VirtualBox Guest on top of Gentoo providing low trafic Web, Mail, DNS, and FTP services. The Gentoo Host also acts as local Gentoo rsync mirror, Samba server and a P2P server.

The Gentoo Host, a Laptop and serveral other Gentoo Desktop boxes and Laptops on the Lan are updated daily using a small cron script except for kernel upgrades. The Debian Server is updated once a week.

comio · Advocate Joined: 03 Jul 2003 Posts: 2191 Location: Taranto

C5ace · Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 7:21 am Post subject:

AJM · Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 10:36 pm Post subject:

If you want long term security updates and absolutely minimal maintenance overhead, I'd go for CentOS. I've used Debian on many machines since the 90s but have never found it a good compromise for me. CentOS gives really decent support lifecycles and is good at not breaking things with updates - you will find that you end up with more bloat than with Gentoo for sure though.

I have used Gentoo on my successive personal desktop PCs for ever and a day (fifteen or sixteen years now) and nothing else provides that degree of flexibility (though regular updates are essential to minimise hassle); on servers though, it's just a bit too much of a headache in my experience (I have tried it.)

Tony0945 · Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:05 am Post subject:

Because Debian uses systemd, I would avoid it.

AJM · Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:07 pm Post subject:

szatox · Advocate Joined: 27 Aug 2013 Posts: 3131

1clue · Advocate Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569

Syl20 · l33t Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 619 Location: France

tld · Veteran Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 1816

Tony0945 · Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:06 pm Post subject:

I don't really understand why Gentoo should be higher maintenance than a binary distro which is updated every six months or so (maybe). You don't actually have to do updates if you don't want to and you can always re-install on top of the existing installation if you want. Of course, it's better to get your security updates, so some updating is a good idea. On my local server I sync nightly and do an automatic emerge -fuvND world to fetch the sources, but manually install about once a week or as needed. There are rarely any blockers so actual keyboard time is a minimum. If there is an apache or php upgrade it runs without taking down the webpage as the binarys are already in memory and are updated at the end with a simple /etc/init.d/apache2 restart.

Updating Windows with it's hotpatches and service packs that broke other stuff was much more of a pain and led to an increasingly fragile system. Just use a stable installation and leave unstable for desktops and laptops.

Tony0945 · Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:14 pm Post subject:

ct85711 · Veteran Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 1791

Tony0945 · Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 3:24 pm Post subject:

ct85711 · Veteran Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 1791

Your not understanding, it's not just GCC, it's all of the build time dependencies that makes up the compile environment. Sure, GCC and glibc makes up a large portion of it, it it doesn't exclude all the other libraries that packages need, like boost, and stuff, and everything else (assuming the package needs/uses them)...

AJM · Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 6:40 pm Post subject:

Tony0945 · Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 6:51 pm Post subject:

tld · Veteran Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 1816