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Xywa
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:25 am    Post subject: [SOLVED] How to start pure X? Reply with quote

Hi,

How to start pure X system (without KDE or Gnome)? I use Gentoo for 10 years and I remember it used to be such pure old fashion looking X-system.

I am basing on this guide:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Xorg/Guide

For Today, I can start KDE, but when I mask in .xinitrc
Code:
#exec startkde

after typing 'startx' from the console, I have black screen for 1 sec and I am back into the text console.
I have full xorg-x11 package instaled. No errors in Xorg.0.log:
http://pastebin.com/Y2tSMBSE

Code:
$ emerge -s xorg-x11
 
[ Results for search key : xorg-x11 ]
Searching...

*  x11-base/xorg-x11
      Latest version available: 7.4-r2
      Latest version installed: 7.4-r2
      Size of files: 0 KiB
      Homepage:      http://xorg.freedesktop.org
      Description:   An X11 implementation maintained by the X.Org Foundation (meta package)
      License:       metapackage


I use Nvidia Optimus (without Nvidia).
Code:
$ eselect opengl list
Available OpenGL implementations:
  [1]   nvidia
  [2]   xorg-x11 *


Last edited by Xywa on Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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The Doctor
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would you want to do that?

If you really insist then the command is X or Xorg but you won't like it. You will get a wonderful black screen with black mouse cursor and no way to do anything.

If you want the test, that is Xorg -retro which gives you the test screen and no way to exit. Best to run Xorg -retro & sleep 200 && killall X so you end up back at your console.

If you are thinking of the simple (and ugly) windows with a few floating X terms, that is the x11-wm/twm window manager with (unsurprisingly) the x11-terms/xterm terminal.
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papas
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had similar problems, during installation, because of this:

"If no window manager has been installed a solid black screen will appear. Since this can also be a sign that something is wrong, the x11-wm/twm and x11-terms/xterm packages can be installed only to test X.

Once the programs are installed, run startx again. A few xterm windows should appear, making it easy to verify the X server is working correctly. Once satisfied with the results, unmerge x11-wm/twm and x11-terms/xterm if installed in the step above to remove the testing packages. They will not be needed to setup a proper desktop environment. "
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Xywa
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
Why would you want to do that?

If you really insist then the command is X or Xorg but you won't like it. You will get a wonderful black screen with black mouse cursor and no way to do anything.

If you want the test, that is Xorg -retro which gives you the test screen and no way to exit. Best to run Xorg -retro & sleep 200 && killall X so you end up back at your console.

If you are thinking of the simple (and ugly) windows with a few floating X terms, that is the x11-wm/twm window manager with (unsurprisingly) the x11-terms/xterm terminal.


The main idea is, to find where is the problem with my unworking Nvidia Optimus system. In last 60 days I have no opengl (with nvidia) and apart Gentoo forum & buglist, I was trying to find help in Xorg bug list and last time Nvidia developer forum.

I want to know if the problem is related to my system configuration or to Gentoo or to eselect-opengl package or nvidia driver or intel driver or xorg-server or my USE flags sets or something else. My X with Nvidia Optimus were working for the last 2 years, so MUST be a reason it doesn't work for last 60 days.

Different settings, packages did not help, so I want go back to the basis to check if pure X work. In the old days in 2005 and later on, my first step was to have a working X system, then I was installing KDE.

Pure X, with usually 3 simple windows, gives me informations X works, and I could test eg. glxgeras and other info. For some reason I have no such X system now, but I should - I have twm, xterm and xorg-x11.

Quote:
Once the programs are installed, run startx again. A few xterm windows should appear, making it easy to verify the X server is working correctly. Once satisfied with the results, unmerge x11-wm/twm and x11-terms/xterm if installed in the step above to remove the testing packages. They will not be needed to setup a proper desktop environment.

^^ So this doesn't work.
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charles17
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: How to start pure X? Reply with quote

Xywa wrote:
Hi,

How to start pure X system (without KDE or Gnome)? I use Gentoo for 10 years and I remember it used to be such pure old fashion looking X-system.

I am basing on this guide:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Xorg/Guide

For Today, I can start KDE, but when I mask in .xinitrc
Code:
#exec startkde

after typing 'startx' from the console, I have black screen for 1 sec and I am back into the text console.

Without any WM set in ~/.xinitrc or /etc/env.d/90xsession? When I tried that last time I got two windows and was very surprised about that kind of no-MW.
Not sure if it still works, but https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-7693304.html#7693304 will tell you more.
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Xywa
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: How to start pure X? Reply with quote

charles17 wrote:
Without any WM set in ~/.xinitrc or /etc/env.d/90xsession? When I tried that last time I got two windows and was very surprised about that kind of no-MW.
Not sure if it still works, but https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-7693304.html#7693304 will tell you more.


Yes, there is nothing inside my .xinitrc

I remember should looks like (or even simpler balck & white):
http://www.vanemery.com/Linux/XoverSSH/mwm-remote2.jpeg
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Proinsias
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think xorg-xclock is part of the default xinit startup alongside xterm & twm.
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The Doctor
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:46 pm    Post subject: Re: How to start pure X? Reply with quote

Xywa wrote:
I remember should looks like (or even simpler balck & white):
http://www.vanemery.com/Linux/XoverSSH/mwm-remote2.jpeg
You remember running twm or simular. X never did that on its own.

So you actually do have your answer. The problem is on the X side of things, not on the DE side.

Xywa wrote:
My X with Nvidia Optimus were working for the last 2 years, so MUST be a reason it doesn't work for last 60 days.
My guess would be that Nvidia dumped support for your card. I'd start by reverting the driver and, if necessary, Xor back to what it was 60 days ago. Planned obsolescence is kind of a thing.

I don't have any Nvida cards, but this happened to my wacom tablet. Support was quietly removed and I was left scratching my head wondering why it stopped working.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:02 pm    Post subject: Re: How to start pure X? Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
My guess would be that Nvidia dumped support for your card. I'd start by reverting the driver and, if necessary, Xor back to what it was 60 days ago. Planned obsolescence is kind of a thing.
I don't have any Nvida cards, but this happened to my wacom tablet. Support was quietly removed and I was left scratching my head wondering why it stopped working.


It happened to my nvidia card one or two years ago. I reverted to the nouveau driver. I think to test this:
    1. build the kernel with the nouveau driver
    2. blacklist the nvidia driver
    3. boot the new kernel and run /etc/init.d/xdm (or whatever)
    4. if that works, you know, else, either rebuild the kernel again or blacklist nouveau


I think the OP is thinking of xinit. If xterm already exists try:
Code:
xinit $(which xterm)
Or use the full path to xterm or xclock or xcalc.
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Xywa
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thank,

May question was about xterm. I know now, so sorry for my lack of knowledge.

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Athenian200
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can technically run X without a Window Manager. But you have to execute a program of some kind in order to do anything, even if it's just an Xterm. It need not be an Xterm, though. You could specify the geometry and run a browser or text editor full screen to make it feel more like a console application. The main downside is that you have no way to resize or reposition applications on screen. Sometimes this might be desirable for, say, a kiosk of some kind. But most of the time it isn't.

For instance, if you change that "exec" line you commented out to something like:

exec nedit 1024x768+0+0

You would get a fullscreen NEdit session that shuts down X when you terminate the program, assuming your resolution is 1024x768.

You could play around with the geometry more precisely and fire up all the applications you use in the exact locations you need, with no borders. Just use an & symbol and issue multiple exec commands in xinitrc with the proper geometry. If you like this look, Xmonad is a little more practical as a way of achieving it. But yeah, it's interesting to note that Window Managers are technically optional.
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