Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
KDE 5 - How is it?
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Desktop Environments
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
orionbelt
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 166
Location: Brussels, Belgium

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
orionbelt wrote:
Gentoo is supposed to be bleeding edge, so i cannot expect from Gentoo devs to support KDE4 if it's no longer supported by the upstream. But i wonder how other distros cope with this. Do they have the resources to backport fixes (especially security fixes) to KDE4?

Gentoo is one of the very few remaining distros providing KDE SC 4.

I think at least CentOS still has support for KDE 4, cf. the kdebase-*4.3.4* packages here: http://mirror.centos.org/centos/6/os/i386/Packages/ which show updates as recent as May 2016. I am genuinely curious whether RH engineers do all the required security bug (and maybe major usability bug, too?) backporting to keep these packages safe... I would imagine this is quite a massive amount of work!

I am also wondering (just for curiosity's and discussion's sake) what may be the reasons why a distro like Gentoo could not be using RH's source RPMs for, e.g., KDE4 in order to be able to maintain longer-term support for it. Is it because RH introduces too many changes with respect to the KDE Project's sources? Obviously, backporting involves lots of work and resources which cannot be expected of all distros, certainly not of the smaller ones. But when an entity such as RH makes this work available under an open license, why not take advantage of it?

I emphasize that i am thinking mainly of basic and major "infrastructure" packages, such as KDE. I.e., packages that the vast majority of users just "want them to work" even if they do not have the latest bells & whistles, especially if the latter come at the heavy price of instability, crashes, reduced feature sets, and a host of other problems. Of course, if the upstream (KDE, in this case) devs cared about "normal" users and behaved responsively, they would not be forcing users to switch to the latest and "greatest" version so prematurely, and the problem would not be there. Alas, this is not the case, hence my questions above.

PS: Based on the number of problems that i am having at this point, i shudder wondering how buggy Plasma 5 must have been when they stopped supporting KDE4 a year ago!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
keet
Guru
Guru


Joined: 09 Sep 2008
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

orionbelt wrote:
I think at least CentOS still has support for KDE 4.


I installed CentOS 7 a few days ago and was surprised to see KDE 4 installed after I requested the 'KDE Plasma' desktop.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
leifbk
Guru
Guru


Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 373
Location: Bærum, Norway

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In other news: Slackware 14.2 has just been released with KDE 4.14.21, "a stable release of the 4.14.x series of the award-winning KDE desktop environment". And this one's kind of funny: Qubes OS 3.2 to Use Xfce4 by Default Because KDE 5 Is Bloated, Unstable and Ugly.

That being said, I'm quite comfortable with KDE 5 now, even if KDE 4 at the end was a far more polished and mature environment. The best I can say about the current version, is that I haven't experienced any crashes - whatsoever - for weeks. (And BTW I'm pretty sure that I've still got some config files from KDE 3 around.) After the initial run, when Baloo dragged the system down for hours, it has behaved mostly smooth and responsive. But then I'm running ~amd64 on a home-built and recently upgraded rig with most of the components designed for hardcore gamers, - ie. a massively overpowered machine for most purposes. But I love to be done with an "emerge -e @world" in a few hours, while at the same time being able to do anything else that I normally use the computer for: KMail, 4-5 instances of Konsole, ditto for Firefox with ca. 50 open tabs in all, a few KWrite windows, Clementine, and OpenTTD. And behind the scene, a PostgreSQL / Apache / PHP stack for my genealogy work.
_________________
Grumpy old man
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
asturm
Developer
Developer


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 7112
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

leifbk wrote:
And this one's kind of funny: Qubes OS 3.2 to Use Xfce4 by Default Because KDE 5 Is Bloated, Unstable and Ugly.

Well, they have been 'trying to get rid of KDE for ages' so this is not entirely surprising. Surprising, however, the way they announce their move, because not only is Plasma-5 much, much less 'bloated' than Plasma-4, they have their own, self-inflicted trouble covering each and every application in its own VM, and do admit deficiencies in their own 'GUI protocol'. Talking about bloat... So apart from crashes that may or may not be fixed [by bothering to ask upstream for help, which they did not], whatever problem they had with looks [not even bothering to invest two or three mouse clicks in systemsettings to switch to oxygen or choose classic menu] I call bullshit.

Needless to say, Plasma-5 runs very well on my 7 years old low-voltage laptop, better [more responsive] than Plasma-4.
_________________
backend.cpp:92:2: warning: #warning TODO - this error message is about as useful as a cooling unit in the arctic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zBrain
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
leifbk wrote:
And this one's kind of funny: Qubes OS 3.2 to Use Xfce4 by Default Because KDE 5 Is Bloated, Unstable and Ugly.

Well, they have been 'trying to get rid of KDE for ages' so this is not entirely surprising. Surprising, however, the way they announce their move, because not only is Plasma-5 much, much less 'bloated' than Plasma-4, they have their own, self-inflicted trouble covering each and every application in its own VM, and do admit deficiencies in their own 'GUI protocol'. Talking about bloat... So apart from crashes that may or may not be fixed [by bothering to ask upstream for help, which they did not], whatever problem they had with looks [not even bothering to invest two or three mouse clicks in systemsettings to switch to oxygen or choose classic menu] I call bullshit.

Needless to say, Plasma-5 runs very well on my 7 years old low-voltage laptop, better [more responsive] than Plasma-4.


Also, who changes DEs between RC releases? Seriously what in the actual ffff.....frick?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Xywa
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 1585
Location: /mnt/Gentoo/Europe

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just fresh info from Today:
https://dot.kde.org/2016/07/05/kde-plasma-57
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sakarias
n00b
n00b


Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BobWya wrote:
zoidie wrote:
Well I've made it. Install went well and was greeted by the shiny new login manager only to be taken to a black screen on login! Appears to be some problems with egl/nvidia somewhere along the line. At the moment I've got round it by changing opengl to xorg-11. At least I can explore for a bit now!


Ah that's great!! 8) Not the black screen bit obviously... 8O

If you can bear to wade through this forum thread... You're not the only one with the black screen of doom problem. :x The tl;dr version is that:
  1. Nvidia's egl/gles2 desktop drivers aren't ready to run KWin 5 (yet) - i.e. building the Qt 5 libraries with these USE flags. I've tested this configuration...
  2. If you do change the Qt 5 egl,gles2 USE flags - don't rely on Portage to re-build the necessary frameworks and plasma packages ('cause it won't)
  3. Currently Gentoo has a bit of dodgy way of switching GL libraries that may make the proprietary drivers a bit flaky - especially when you try to use EGL/GLES2 compositing. (So much so that I forked the eselect-opengl switching mechanism in my Overlay). Heated debate on Bugzilla over that...


Since I spent 2-3 weeks staring a black SDDM screen and experiencing broken compositing I can put up with having to manually a lot of the Qt 5.6.0 libraries just to get them to build... On to the new shiny 8)

Bob


I use nvidia drivers. Is USE flags -gles -gles2 -gles3 -egl best way install qt5 libraries and plasma 5. Uninstall and compile again?
_________________
---
Sakarias
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
franzf
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 4408

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just updated my dads desktop to plasma 5.7 (Qt already was at 5.7) and I immediately face two issues:
* bounds of plasmoids are incorrect: systray, clock and ex-cashew (config button, or how do we call it today?) cover each other, when playmoids are locked te clock only shows 3 out of 4 digits (finally an excuse to be about 10 minutes too late ;))
* taskbar doesn't show icons for at least firefox and thunderbird. dolphin and libreoffice seem to work.

Probably more is coming. It's not unusable but clearly worse than 5.6 was...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Perfect Gentleman
l33t
l33t


Joined: 18 May 2014
Posts: 809

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plasma 5.7 is fine as always.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gerard27
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 2377
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Upgraded to 5,7.
Wacomtablet is still not recognized by Systemsettings.
The system however works,can draw in Gimp.
In konsole when you enter:xwacomsettings list devices it answers correctly.
There are bug reports in bugs.kde.org but nobody cares.
I get the impression that smartphones and tablets are now kde's target.
The rest has lost importance to the kde devs.
Gerard.
_________________
To install Gentoo I use sysrescuecd.Based on Gentoo,has firefox to browse Gentoo docs and mc to browse (and edit) files.
The same disk can be used for 32 and 64 bit installs.
You can follow the Handbook verbatim.
http://www.sysresccd.org/Download
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kensington
Developer
Developer


Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 177
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerard82 wrote:
Upgraded to 5,7.
Wacomtablet is still not recognized by Systemsettings.
The system however works,can draw in Gimp.
In konsole when you enter:xwacomsettings list devices it answers correctly.
There are bug reports in bugs.kde.org but nobody cares.
I get the impression that smartphones and tablets are now kde's target.
The rest has lost importance to the kde devs.
Gerard.


Did you install the correct version of kde-misc/wacomtablet ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gerard27
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 2377
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course I did Kensington.
Code:

[ebuild   R    ] kde-misc/wacomtablet-3.0.0_beta1:5::gentoo  USE="handbook -debug {-test}" 0 KiB

The trouble is in Systemsettings.
If you read my post you'll see that the tablet works.
But I cannot set it in Systemsettings since it claims it doesn't exist.
Gerard.
_________________
To install Gentoo I use sysrescuecd.Based on Gentoo,has firefox to browse Gentoo docs and mc to browse (and edit) files.
The same disk can be used for 32 and 64 bit installs.
You can follow the Handbook verbatim.
http://www.sysresccd.org/Download
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
franzf
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 4408

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

franzf wrote:
* taskbar doesn't show icons for at least firefox and thunderbird.

Aha! www-client/firefox is fine, firefox-bin and thunderbird-bin cause the trouble. So either an upstream packaging bug or incompatibility between used libraries/library versions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
peakeyed
n00b
n00b


Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plasma 5.7 is great!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dasPaul
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 14 Feb 2012
Posts: 215
Location: Dresden

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I upraded to 5.7.1. One enhancement so far: multi-monitor configuration (position,refresh rate) gets saved now between reboots, Yippee! Regarding previous versions up to 5.7.1 some stuff still annoys me.
Besides that my second monitor (--right-of HDMI1) is sometimes still initialised wrong... greyish background, no rightclick possible and if I change its setting in the screen setting plasmashell crashes sometimes, sometimes not.. who cares.
Yesterday after a reboot I lost all my favourites entries, pff who cares.
I removed SDDM because when the system puts the screen into standby my fan spins up as if it secretly calculates "the god formula" (I heard this will be fixed with qt 5.7.1 and is dye some GL extension or something and my cheaply Intel GPU...).
Another thing is that if kde isn't started by SDDM but just by startkde in .xinitrc my multimedia keys don't work any more [edit: and reboot, shutdown button disappeared].
I also disabled compositing completely and set it to Xrender because it also makes my fan spin up even with VAAPI 720p Videos. To enable vsync and get rid of tearing I used "compton -b -C -G --vsync opengl --backend glx" which works amazing efficient comparing to kwin's vsync and my fan is completely silent while watching the same video. Maybe that's all an Intel driver issue but I was gone through a lot of up/downgrading packets versions/combinations,xorg settings,sna/uxa and arrived with this current setup. Its works, but in my opinion its far from stable.

Whats also anoying me is the classical ALT-TAB switch. It seems always to select the wrong window comparing to other systems I had. I dont know if this is KDE specific but if I work with many windows and I want to switch to the second last used I have to go through all the other items to activate it. I did not encounter this with openbox/enlightenment/compiz or I am to stupid. :lol:
The only reason I currently stick to KDE is that I heavily use kstars which requires plasma-meta to run properly.
so far, my experience with KDE5


Last edited by dasPaul on Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:18 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JiriHorky
n00b
n00b


Joined: 04 Nov 2013
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to add some reaction as well, it forced me to register to forum to actually share it.

Long story short short - if you use multiple monitors and change plug/unplug it often during the day *DO NOT INSTALL* KDE5.

I am running the last available KDE5 as of now (5.7.1) and it still has serious bugs:
- the task bar panel does not show up on primary screen. It requires several try/fail cycles in "Display Configuration", enabling, disabling the external monitor to get it running. I still haven't figured out what rule it follows, it seems to be more random than deterministic.
- Plasmashell crashes now and then, it seems to be related to connecting disconnecting external monitor.
- kwin_x11 crashes multiple times a day, so you are unable to move/resize windows

BTW: The things very much worse with gentoo stable's KDE5.5.

Overall, I am really disappointed with the quality of the KDE5 as of now. I am really not doing anything special, but IMHO it's unusable. I need to restart plasmashell, kwin_x11 multiple times during the day, I see crashes after reboot...I only regret that I decided to upgrade from stable KDE4 :-( I hoped that in version 5.*7*, the standard things will be working flawlessly. I can not imagine a normal desktop user could ever use it (with multiple monitors).


Jiri Horky
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
asturm
Developer
Developer


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 7112
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dasPaul wrote:
Another thing is that if kde isn't started by SDDM but just by startkde in .xinitrc my multimedia keys don't work any more [edit: and reboot, shutdown button disappeared].

...because startkde is not enough. You also need to launch a consolekit session.

@JiriHorky: What graphics driver is that, and what use flags do you have?
_________________
backend.cpp:92:2: warning: #warning TODO - this error message is about as useful as a cooling unit in the arctic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dasPaul
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 14 Feb 2012
Posts: 215
Location: Dresden

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:

...because startkde is not enough. You also need to launch a consolekit session.

Thanks, solved by adding "ck-launch-session" to .xinitrc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cruzki123
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 249

PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
dasPaul wrote:
Another thing is that if kde isn't started by SDDM but just by startkde in .xinitrc my multimedia keys don't work any more [edit: and reboot, shutdown button disappeared].

...because startkde is not enough. You also need to launch a consolekit session.

@JiriHorky: What graphics driver is that, and what use flags do you have?


I have the same problems that him. I am using Intel drivers 2.99.917_p20160621-r1 (also happen with stable ones). For what packages did you need the use flags?

Thanks in advance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aiken
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 221
Location: Toowoomba/Australia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been staying with stable so 5.6.5 and the few annoyances are

Folder view for the desktop can not remember icon positions. This worked in kde4.

I know there is a thread about this, the don't have permission to mount a usb stick problem.

Console kit not letting me shut down my own computer because I have a long forgotten and not being used session from another account of mine logged in. I don't care what some bit of software says, if I want to shut down my own computer I should not need permission and the root password.

Not being able to set the font size in the clock widget any more. Would like to know how to get the date under the time without having to play with the panel height.

The only good thing I have to say about 5.6.5 so far is it has only crashed once and 5.5.1 is the reason some of the desktops and laptops I look after have been migrated to lxqt.
_________________
Beware the grue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
asturm
Developer
Developer


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 7112
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aiken wrote:
I know there is a thread about this, the don't have permission to mount a usb stick problem.

Console kit not letting me shut down my own computer because I have a long forgotten and not being used session from another account of mine logged in. I don't care what some bit of software says, if I want to shut down my own computer I should not need permission and the root password.

ck-list-sessions will likely reveal a misconfigured consolekit setup in your case, which is covered by the Plasma-4-to-5 upgrade guide troubleshooting section.
_________________
backend.cpp:92:2: warning: #warning TODO - this error message is about as useful as a cooling unit in the arctic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aiken
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 221
Location: Toowoomba/Australia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can not recall ever intentionally do anything with consolekit and do not know if the output of that command is good or bad. Consolekit is configured however it gets configured when it is installed. It is an intermittent problem and has happened several times. Does not help I have not been able to replicate it and last night all that happened was plasma 5 stuffed up the icon positions 3 times before I gave up. Consolekit not allowing a person to shutdown their machine has happened multiple times but can not work out a reliable trigger.

Looking at the gentoo wiki page about consolekit I am left thinking I would prefer if it could be configured to do nothing and leave any permissions to what I have set in /etc/groups and to never interfere.

This is small soho setup with 3 desktops, 3 laptops and multiple servers. There are other annoyances with plasma 5 with things that worked in kde4 where with one machine that user and technology do no go together and that machine has not been updated since plasma 5 went stable. The icons being rearranged with no user input and being told no permission when trying to use usb sticks are show stoppers on that computer and another user gave up on their and went looking for a windows machine just so they could use their usb stick.

Would like to think baloo ignoring the the don't index setting and not stopping then making a machine unresponsive for the better part of an hour generating completely unwanted data that is deleted the moment baloo is killed has to be a bug and not intentional. For our needs we are not finding plasma 5 a suitable replacement for kde4.
_________________
Beware the grue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
asturm
Developer
Developer


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 7112
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aiken wrote:
I can not recall ever intentionally do anything with consolekit and do not know if the output of that command is good or bad. Consolekit is configured however it gets configured when it is installed.

Gentoo is not exactly known for preventing you from configuring stuff (the Wikis exist for a reason). Note that without pasting this information no one is able to help you, but of course this also isn't really a support thread. Feel free to open one, though.

Aiken wrote:
and being told no permission when trying to use usb sticks are show stoppers on that computer and another user gave up on their and went looking for a windows machine just so they could use their usb stick.

I guess what you see is this: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-7915052.html#7915052
_________________
backend.cpp:92:2: warning: #warning TODO - this error message is about as useful as a cooling unit in the arctic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aiken
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 221
Location: Toowoomba/Australia

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is it. Last time I started clicking anything I could in the device notifier until it worked. My initial experience seems similar to the current last post in that thread. The person who gave up and went windows just said "what tick?" and the person who does not mix with technology that change is too much and unless an initial click of that button means all further usb sticks work then that change means no more usb sticks for that person as the change is too much for them. Every new stick they will fail to get it working.

After doing computer support for that person for around 20 years I am confident that change means no more usb sticks for them.

The icon has since changed and is not a tick any more which confused matters again after just telling one person to click on the tick and there was no tick -> Click to access this device from other applications. As I type I am dealing with rants about change for the sake of change and to a certain extent I agree.
_________________
Beware the grue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
asturm
Developer
Developer


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 7112
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it's an intentional change, it is simply a bug.
_________________
backend.cpp:92:2: warning: #warning TODO - this error message is about as useful as a cooling unit in the arctic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Desktop Environments All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Page 6 of 10

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum