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minsoehan Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 02 Jan 2015 Posts: 101 Location: Yangon, Burma. (Mother Su's Country)
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:14 am Post subject: compilation shorten Computer life? |
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Eg. if I install Firefox, compilation time takes a bit long. It's ok. No question.
But compilation takes up 52% of my CPU, Intel Core i3-4005U (1.7 GHz, 3MB L3 cache) and 25% of my 8GB Ram.
It is absolutely without any other task.
So the question is that can using Gentoo shorten my computer's life because of compilation than using any other Distros ?
Don't flame me. it is just curious. |
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v_andal Guru
Joined: 26 Aug 2008 Posts: 541 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:33 am Post subject: |
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Potentially - yes, practically - impossible to say. I have 15-year old laptop with Gentoo and it still works. My colleague had laptop with Windows and it died after 4 years.
In real life, quite often people replace their PCs because they want newer specs. So, the decisive point is not compilation but quality of device and speed of hardware development. |
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Perfect Gentleman Veteran
Joined: 18 May 2014 Posts: 1245
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:22 am Post subject: |
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playing games kills cpu/computer much faster, turning on/off every day too. |
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The Doctor Moderator
Joined: 27 Jul 2010 Posts: 2678
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:36 am Post subject: |
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I'd say the quality of the computer plays a big role there. If you are running the cheapest generic you could find it probably will. If you are running a designer end machine with top notch cooling then it probably won't.
Also, laptop vs desktop. No laptop ever invented has great cooling characteristics. It just doesn't have the space. Desktops can spread out and cool. That makes a huge difference in CPU temps.
Practically it probably matters more how well you take care of your computer, ie dusting it and not dropping it. I've seen a 6 inch drop kill a netbook. _________________ First things first, but not necessarily in that order.
Apologies if I take a while to respond. I'm currently working on the dematerialization circuit for my blue box. |
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asturm Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 8935
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Yes, don't buy cheap and pay attention to temperatures once in a while. My Thinkpad is still going strong after more than 6 years of Gentoo. |
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minsoehan Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 02 Jan 2015 Posts: 101 Location: Yangon, Burma. (Mother Su's Country)
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Perfect Gentleman wrote: | playing games kills cpu/computer much faster, turning on/off every day too. |
Yeah, everyone would agrees playing games kill computer.
But about turning on/off every day. I'm not very used to Suspend or Hibernate my laptop.
Work on laptop at home and Shutdown it and pack it and carry it to my office and turn it on and work on it.
And then Shutdown laptop and go back home. This is my weekdays circle. Honestly I'm not very comfortable to carry my laptop suspended to office.
I don't want shaking and bumping on the bus when laptop is suspended or hibernated.
How are you guys using laptops? |
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schorsch_76 Guru
Joined: 19 Jun 2012 Posts: 450
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Perfect Gentleman Veteran
Joined: 18 May 2014 Posts: 1245
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:06 am Post subject: |
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when you turn on computer there are transient events which are very harmful for CPU and other equipment |
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khayyam Watchman
Joined: 07 Jun 2012 Posts: 6227 Location: Room 101
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:28 am Post subject: |
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minsoehan wrote: | But about turning on/off every day. I'm not very used to Suspend or Hibernate my laptop. Work on laptop at home and Shutdown it and pack it and carry it to my office and turn it on and work on it. And then Shutdown laptop and go back home. This is my weekdays circle. Honestly I'm not very comfortable to carry my laptop suspended to office. I don't want shaking and bumping on the bus when laptop is suspended or hibernated. How are you guys using laptops? |
minsoehan ... I practically never shutdown/reboot, with hibernation (suspend to disk) the hardware is powered down like a regular shutdown, so there is no chance of anything "shaking or bumping" some data off the disk ;) It's perfectly safe, and saves you time as you can resume whatever it was you were doing prior to suspending (except of course such things that might have changed between locations, such as the network, or shares).
To do this you need an initramfs, if you're not already using one, and a few changes to the parameters passed via the bootloader.
best ... khay |
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Naib Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6051 Location: Removed by Neddy
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:45 am Post subject: |
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*sigh*...
right the real damage to CPU's and components are either
1) overtemperature. sort out your cooling ...
2) Thermal stress. Rapid high->low->high->low ... Could turning off the computer, turning it back on & compiling... turning it off... etc be enough to accelerate its aging? (bondwire thermal stress)... depending on how fast it cools...
3) Poor handling at build time or clean (DO NOT USE A VACUUM!!!). ESD is a real issue not some fairy tail spun by the electronics industry (here is my EE.SO link: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/93293/wood-workbench-as-esd-protection/159107#159107 )
4) really cheap parts... _________________
Quote: | Removed by Chiitoo |
Last edited by Naib on Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:38 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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khayyam Watchman
Joined: 07 Jun 2012 Posts: 6227 Location: Room 101
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Naib wrote: | 4) <reserved> there is a 4th but went from my mind. |
Naib ... probably "zombie apocalypse" ;)
best ... khay |
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Naib Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6051 Location: Removed by Neddy
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:57 am Post subject: |
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khayyam wrote: | Naib wrote: | 4) <reserved> there is a 4th but went from my mind. |
Naib ... probably "zombie apocalypse"
best ... khay | that to, was cheap parts. We got bit a while ago where some "commercial" parts just didn't survive thermal cycling... Ripped itself apart. If the thermal expansion of the die and the substrate isn't considered.. Well _________________
Quote: | Removed by Chiitoo |
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albright Advocate
Joined: 16 Nov 2003 Posts: 2588 Location: Near Toronto
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | With the SSD and gentoo (openrc) it is on X and workable in under 10 sec (including boot password). |
you're a lucky man; my thinkpad t440s takes almsot 10 seconds just to get through the
bios startup _________________ .... there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth
doing as simply messing about with Linux ...
(apologies to Kenneth Graeme) |
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NeddySeagoon Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Posts: 54214 Location: 56N 3W
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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minsoehan,
It a well established fact in electronics reliability that a 10 deg C rise is the operating temperature of electronic equipment doubles the random failure rate.
Two questions arise from that.
a) Will the equipment be obsolete before it fails (so you don't care)
b) Will the equipment fail beforehand from non random causes.
Non random failures are difficult to predict. There are well known non random effects that equipment designers try to minimise. e.g. gold embrittlement of solder joints. The pads on printed circuit boards are often covered with gold, as this prevents oxides forming which make the pads difficult to solder.
The down side is that in the finished solder joint, the gold contend must be very low, so that the gold embrittlement problem is avoided.
Another is temperature cycling. This causes repeated mechanical stress on parts due to differential expansion/contraction as parts heat and cool.
The classic example is that light bulbs and vacuum tube heaters normally fail at switch on. This effect is seen in other electronic equipment too.
All the above are statistical truths and statistics only work with reasonable sample sizes.
They cannot be applied to a sample size of one.
Summing up, for your particular system, the answer is a definite maybe. _________________ Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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Naib Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6051 Location: Removed by Neddy
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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I would say the bigger problem with commercial electronics is tin wiskers (goo fscking EU and their short sightedness... ) & their associated failures rather than all these other stuff... _________________
Quote: | Removed by Chiitoo |
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desultory Bodhisattva
Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 9410
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Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:56 am Post subject: |
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The Doctor wrote: | Also, laptop vs desktop. No laptop ever invented has great cooling characteristics. It just doesn't have the space. Desktops can spread out and cool. That makes a huge difference in CPU temps. | One way to mitigate that is to use a CPU governor that keeps the temperature down while (re)building packages, whether by setting up a set of processes to ignore for frequency scaling, something that actively takes heat into account, or simply by enforcing a lower processor speed during updates.
The Doctor wrote: | Practically it probably matters more how well you take care of your computer, ie dusting it and not dropping it. I've seen a 6 inch drop kill a netbook. | Uncontrolled descent is very much on the list of things to avoid allowing a computer to do, no matter how eager it is to try new things.
khayyam wrote: | minsoehan ... I practically never shutdown/reboot, with hibernation (suspend to disk) the hardware is powered down like a regular shutdown, so there is no chance of anything "shaking or bumping" some data off the disk It's perfectly safe, and saves you time as you can resume whatever it was you were doing prior to suspending (except of course such things that might have changed between locations, such as the network, or shares).
To do this you need an initramfs, if you're not already using one, and a few changes to the parameters passed via the bootloader. | Actually, you do not need an initramfs to support hibernation, I am posting this using such a system. |
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yagami Apprentice
Joined: 12 May 2002 Posts: 269 Location: Leiria, Portugal
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Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Well, one trick I do is to configure portage make.conf to only use half my cpu cores.
If for overnight compilation, I even "downgrade" further.
For example, I have an i7 with 8 cores. During day, I compile with -j4, and at night I use -j2.
This has two upsides: Cooler temp's and makes my system completly responsive while compiling !
EDIT: s/"not only use halt my cpu"/"not only use half my cpu" |
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Cyker Veteran
Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 1746
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Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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I used to have PORTAGE_NICENESS=20 set in my make.conf which meant it ran at the idle CPU frequency. Good for temps and power usage but took so long to compile I took it out
(NB: this does require e.g. /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/ondemand/ignore_nice_load to be set to "1"!) |
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JDisaster n00b
Joined: 17 Feb 2016 Posts: 5
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Ant P. Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 6920
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Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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...or just leave things as they are and enable laptop_mode for mostly the same effect, except that any working set that doesn't fit in the VFS cache won't repeatedly hammer the tiny fixed area of the drive assigned to swap. |
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1clue Advocate
Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569
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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:08 am Post subject: |
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Really, as long as the system gets rid of heat adequately I don't think there's much difference with respect to CPU or other solid state components.
A storage device, whether it spins or is an SSD, has a finite number of writes that can be done to any sector before damage occurs. It benefits both speed and longevity of any drive to set up tmpfs if you have the RAM for it. Time powered on for a storage device is probably a bad thing as a general rule. |
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Buffoon Veteran
Joined: 17 Jun 2015 Posts: 1369 Location: EU or US
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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:17 am Post subject: |
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Once upon time I purchased a new used refurbished T23, 1.2 GHz, 2 GB of RAM, a real monster ... err, it was A. D. 2004. Alright, I had to run some errands, took it into my car and started emerging KDE. Arrived somewhere, locked up the car in a hot summer day in Rhode Island. Guess what, when I got back a few hours later my brand new used refurbished T23 was dead. Dead!
Draw your own conclusions. |
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ct85711 Veteran
Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 1791
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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:27 am Post subject: |
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Even then, it wasn't necessarily because of you compiling KDE. You could have been running windows, and just as well fried your laptop. You could easily just take a brand new laptop, lock it in an enclosed room that is 100+ with the laptop running, and see how long it lives too. Sure my last laptop, which I just happen to also fry, went out because it wasn't able to handle to the heat load for extended periods of time. The only reason why it lived as long for me, is that I underclocked that laptop to the bare minimal amount to turn the CPU on just to get a little bit more out of that laptop. |
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Cyker Veteran
Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 1746
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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:01 am Post subject: |
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1clue wrote: | Really, as long as the system gets rid of heat adequately I don't think there's much difference with respect to CPU or other solid state components.
A storage device, whether it spins or is an SSD, has a finite number of writes that can be done to any sector before damage occurs. It benefits both speed and longevity of any drive to set up tmpfs if you have the RAM for it. Time powered on for a storage device is probably a bad thing as a general rule. |
Small correction; Limited writes is an SSD thing - With magnetic media it's pretty much infinite (I have a friend with a 20MB SCSI drive in his Amiga that still works!). The thing that tends to go on magnetic media is the spindle motor (Or head/platter damage if it's being moved about.)
Both are very vulnerable to ESD tho'! |
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1clue Advocate
Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569
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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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@Buffoon,
Do you somehow suspect that, had your laptop been in an air conditioned office, it would have still died an early death? Or that if you had not been compiling but left it running in the car, it wouldn't have?
Clearly it's not the compiling that killed your laptop, it's the heat. |
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