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Tony0945
Watchman
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 5127
Location: Illinois, USA
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 Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| krinn wrote: | | Not only the code, but his attitude is so pathetic... If removing root of a system is not a problem, i wonder what could be a problem for him then. |
Losing his job? |
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josephg
l33t
Joined: 10 Jan 2016
Posts: 783
Location: usually offline
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| depontius wrote: | A slight, but related diversion...
Having been part of the "avoid systemd" club for several years now, a while back I noticed that USE="introspection" drags a lot of junk along and seems very intrusive. So I've been avoiding it rather like the plague. I avoid it with less fervor than systemd, but more than dbus. I have USE="-dbus" globally, but it's there for one or two packages that require it and that I don't want to do without. I've got USE="-introspection" set globally, but I believe I have one or two packages that also require it. However if some package comes along that needs it AND calls for a whole bunch of stuff to be rebuilt with USE="+introspection" then I tend to avoid that package.
Then we get "redshift". My wife has been having some sleeping difficulties lately, and it often helps her to sit at the computer and write. So the writing helps, but being in front of the computer hurts. Something like "redshift" would be a great thing for the situation.
But it uses introspection, and calls for a bunch of stuff to also be built with it.
So I'm here in the Curmudgeon Corner asking if my avoidance of USE="introspection" is misplaced.
There is a similar package called "sct" that does something similar, though less sophisticated. It's not in portage, but it's distributed as source. |
i like sct, as it is a much smaller & efficient package. i like redshift, because it feels warmer.
i've been using redshift for years, without gui. i call it from .xinitrc, and it works fine for me.
| Code: | $ eix -I -c --installed-with-use dbus
No matches found
$ eix -I -c --installed-with-use introspection
No matches found
$ eix -I -c --installed-with-use systemd
No matches found |
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Anon-E-moose
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Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6098
Location: Dallas area
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:55 am Post subject: |
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I've long had "introspection" masked, but I sometimes have to move an ebuild to local and modify it because an idiot "developer" doesn't understand that when you don't want "introspection" you don't need "introspection-common"
AFA pottering, does anyone really expect anything not-stupid from his lips (or fingers as the case may be)
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NeddySeagoon
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Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54232
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Anon-E-moose,
File bugs.
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NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
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Leio
Developer
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Estonia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | | File bugs. |
Such bugs would get marked INVALID very swiftly, because that's what it would be, because gobject-introspection-common is often required to be present at build time to be able to successfully eautoreconf, should that be needed. You know, to actually have a --disable-introspection switch in the generated configure file...
The package is huge however, so I can understand wanting to not have it installed at build time, just because it contains the name "introspection" in it. A 3.5kB m4 file and a 7.2kB helper Makefile snippet.
Regarding the wall of posts above - it seems the conversation was obviously locked, because a fix had been applied days before already, so there was no point in such conversations in an issue that is already fixed. This is common approach by many projects where some users randomly start commenting days after a fix for the issue is already applied (and those comments aren't about said fix not working).
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GNOME team lead; GStreamer; MIPS/ARM64 |
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steveL
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Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Leio wrote: | | Regarding the wall of posts above - it seems the conversation was obviously locked, because a fix had been applied days before already, so there was no point in such conversations in an issue that is already fixed. This is common approach by many projects where some users randomly start commenting days after a fix for the issue is already applied (and those comments aren't about said fix not working). |
I don't much care about this, but you are simply missing the point.
"Wall of posts" doesn't help, either.[1]
--
[1] For those who aren't familiar: "wall of text" is a standard "developer" brush-off of user complaints that have become verbose in frustration; a good way to alienate users by denigrating them at a time when they're going through real stress. It shows a complete lack of sensitivity, and always misses the underlying problem. |
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khayyam
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Posts: 6227
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Leio wrote: | | Regarding the wall of posts above - it seems the conversation was obviously locked, because a fix had been applied days before already, so there was no point in such conversations in an issue that is already fixed. This is common approach by many projects where some users randomly start commenting days after a fix for the issue is already applied (and those comments aren't about said fix not working). |
Leio ... was Lennart not " randomly [...] commenting days after a fix for the issue is already applied"? It seems you want that any reply to his obvious boo-boo fit that criteria, but want to overlook that these replies came in responce to what Lennart had written. So why was Lennart "randomly [...] commenting days after a fix for the issue is already applied" ... to show his vague grasp of "UNIX pitfall(s)" and assure everyone it's "not a problem"?
best ... khay |
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Naib
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6051
Location: Removed by Neddy
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Leio wrote: |
Regarding the wall of posts above - it seems the conversation was obviously locked, because a fix had been applied days before already, so there was no point in such conversations in an issue that is already fixed. This is common approach by many projects where some users randomly start commenting days after a fix for the issue is already applied (and those comments aren't about said fix not working). |
23days ago bug opened
21days ago commit to address issue
21days ago commit to address issue
21days ago bug closed
...
19days ago pottering shows his lack of understanding
...
This "wall of text" you were referring to was initiated when pottering again showed his lack of understanding of UNIX. The issue was solved and there was no need for him to reply. He locked it when his stupidity was shown.
Luckily you cannot close this thread
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Leio
Developer
Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Posts: 494
Location: Estonia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:06 am Post subject: |
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If I were to summon my inner Lennart, then I would say the discussions went on some other relevant PRs or issues, while the peanut gallery continued spamming on irrelevant stuff in the old bug, as things were follow-up tweaked to a much improved way after Lennart comments on some other github links than you immediately see; also 20 days ago, while new unnecessary comments were happening on some old issue with the initial version of patch. As the more up to date issue or PR is of course not locked for conversation yet, I won't directly point at it to avoid the peanut gallery reaching that too and causing it to be locked.
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mv
Watchman
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 6747
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| steveL wrote: | | It's not something I see much need for at base-system level ("what, you don't know what you're using?"); hence it smells wrong. |
gobject is not base-system level: It is the object level used by GUIs.
As I understand it, it you are writing code in e.g. perl or python which should e.g. take control of a certain window (generated by another programming language), you will just get the window object. Of course, there are many windows. Let's just focus on one feature: some might have a "close" decoration and some might not. One might of course, query details from the calling program and/or some configuration whether the currently passed window is supposed to have such a "close" decoration, but the "pure" object oriented philosophy is that the object itself should know whether it has a "close" decoration or not (and if yes, where it is located and how the user interacts with it). So there should be a way to ask the object. Within C++ or java, you might have a virtual "have_close_decoration()", but gobject is meant to be used by C and other languages as well which have no (or different) concepts of virtual functions. Since gobject is meant to provide exactly that underlying object oriented framework, it sounds natural to me to provide an analogous "universal" functionality within the C library (which depending on the language binding might simply "look" in C++ or java like virtual functions - I haven't checked).
Sure, one can discuss whether "pure" object orientation is an desirable goal which should be used for just everything, but for a library which aims to provide exactly a framework for universal objects, I see nothing wrong to do what it announces. And if you do not like that e.g. windows are handled as objects, you must not use any gtk or qt variant anyway. |
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josephg
l33t
Joined: 10 Jan 2016
Posts: 783
Location: usually offline
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Leio wrote: | | If I were to summon my inner Lennart |
| Leio wrote: | | the peanut gallery |
| Leio wrote: | | GNOME team lead |
"peanut gallery"??  haha.. is that what the gnome team calls all others who are not maintainers? |
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steveL
Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| steveL wrote: | | It's not something I see much need for at base-system level ("what, you don't know what you're using?"); hence it smells wrong. |
| mv wrote: | | gobject is not base-system level: It is the object level used by GUIs. |
I was referring to things like udisks and upower.
Not really in the mood to get into the rest, as it's not pertinent to what I was saying.
In passing, I'd just throw in "code to an interface." |
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Shamus397
Apprentice
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 218
Location: Ur-th
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| josephg wrote: | | "peanut gallery"?? haha.. is that what the gnome team calls all others who are not maintainers? |
It's because the Gnome devs hate their users.  |
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desultory
Bodhisattva
Joined: 04 Nov 2005
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | Luckily you cannot close this thread |
At the rate things are going, it will close relatively soon anyway; at which point part 3 will be made. |
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Anon-E-moose
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Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6098
Location: Dallas area
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| desultory wrote: | | Naib wrote: | | Luckily you cannot close this thread |
At the rate things are going, it will close relatively soon anyway; at which point part 3 will be made. |
LoL
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Anon-E-moose
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Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6098
Location: Dallas area
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| Leio wrote: | | NeddySeagoon wrote: | | File bugs. |
Such bugs would get marked INVALID very swiftly, because that's what it would be, because gobject-introspection-common is often required to be present at build time to be able to successfully eautoreconf, should that be needed. You know, to actually have a --disable-introspection switch in the generated configure file... |
Well, all I can say is that I've removed it from several ebuilds and never had a problem with them. YMMV.
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khayyam
Watchman
Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Posts: 6227
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Leio wrote: | | If I were to summon my inner Lennart, then I would say the discussions went on some other relevant PRs or issues, while the peanut gallery continued spamming on irrelevant stuff in the old bug, as things were follow-up tweaked to a much improved way after Lennart comments on some other github links than you immediately see; also 20 days ago, while new unnecessary comments were happening on some old issue with the initial version of patch. As the more up to date issue or PR is of course not locked for conversation yet, I won't directly point at it to avoid the peanut gallery reaching that too and causing it to be locked. |
Leio ... it's a rare gift to be able to channel the master, and you've certainly got that down in the above. However, its a dangerous game to play because it makes you look like a coconut gallery shill, policing, with diminution, the lesser, and unwashed, masses. For anyone schooled in the subject of political skulduggery this is cloak & dagger 101 ... coconut, coconut, coconut ... see how that works?
best ... khay |
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steveL
Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Leio wrote: | | If I were to summon my inner Lennart |
So, your answer to " you are simply missing the point", is to miss the point even more?
What khayyam said. |
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tld
Veteran
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 1816
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:29 am Post subject: |
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Semi-OT question here: Like many posting to this thread, I've had >=sys-apps/openrc-0.18 masked for quite some time, because I just don't trust the BS going on with it at all. I just realized today that the 0.17 version I'm running and in fact, everything older than 0.21.7 is no longer in portage. I found that a little bothersome, though I'm not sure it's likely I'll have to recompile it.
Are others addressing this in an overlay or the like? Thanks!
Tom |
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NeddySeagoon
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Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54232
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:01 am Post subject: |
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tld,
The ebuild is available in several places.
a) on your system, in case it needs to be uninstalled when its no longer in the tree
b) in the CVS attic
c) in git but my git foo is too weak to find it.
If you ever need the ebuild again, you will need to obtain it from one of those places and put it into your local overlay.
You will also need the source files and any patches that the ebuild used. That may be harder as they will no longer be on Gentoos mirrors.
However, openrc has its own repository, so they should be there.
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NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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mrbassie
l33t
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 772
Location: over here
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| tld wrote: | Semi-OT question here: Like many posting to this thread, I've had >=sys-apps/openrc-0.18 masked for quite some time, because I just don't trust the BS going on with it at all. I just realized today that the 0.17 version I'm running and in fact, everything older than 0.21.7 is no longer in portage. I found that a little bothersome, though I'm not sure it's likely I'll have to recompile it.
Are others addressing this in an overlay or the like? Thanks!
Tom |
There are a few overlays with older builds of openrc. gpo.zugaina.org
I'm still on 0.13.11 |
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Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6098
Location: Dallas area
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:50 am Post subject: |
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I'm still on 0.13.11 also.
If someone really needs it I have backed up /usr/portage (minus distfiles but including the /files subdir) daily into a tar file for several years.
I just need to know the approximate time it got removed from portage to find it.
I do keep the distfiles, but they're separate from the portage tarballs.
But they should be available somewhere on the net, with at little looking.
Edit to add: I've gotten to where anytime I mask a package above a certain version (>=pkg in package.mask) I copy the files to my local portage.
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mv
Watchman
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 6747
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | | c) in git but my git foo is too weak to find it. |
If you have a git clone of the gentoo repository, just go to sys-apps/openrc of that repository and type
| Code: | | git log --stat --all ./openrc-18.4* |
(the glob is only an example, of course) and read the output to find the commit where the file was last modified (skipping the commit which removed it, of course).
Then remember the full filename and just "checkout" the file from the corresponding commit (it suffices to remember the first few numbers from that commit). In this example:
| Code: | | git checkout 782ebc ./openrc-0.18.4.ebuild |
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NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54232
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:47 am Post subject: |
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mv,
Thank you.
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Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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depontius
Advocate
Joined: 05 May 2004
Posts: 3509
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