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khayyam
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

User: miroR
Topic: Postfix smtp-tls-wrapper, Bkp/Cloning Mthd, A Zerk Provider
Post: post 7693214
Reason: More incomprehensible blogging by our incomprehensible blogger.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

User: miroR
Topic: Postfix smtp-tls-wrapper, Bkp/Cloning Mthd, A Zerk Provider
Post: post 7693214
Reason: more incomprehensible blogging by our incomprehensible blogger.


Is miroR smoking crack or what?
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

User: miroR
Topic: Postfix smtp-tls-wrapper, Bkp/Cloning Mthd, A Zerk Provider
Post: post 7694556
Reason: more incomprehensible blogging ... I think somone ("esp. gentoo moderators") are supposed to "assess[ing] the viability" of the post so he can send it to his ISP (we can assume) ... oh, its "urgent".
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't looking for any attention. I justv responded politely to a poll and was attacked without provocation. OK, I'll drop it. Mgorny has the power and I'm just a user. I'm old enough to know the way of the world. But I thought better of this community.
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

User: miroR
Topic: System attacked, Konqueror went on window-popping spree!
Post: post 7696040
Reason: more incomprehesible blogging
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asturm
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

User: miroR
Topic: Updating and keeping your Gentoo non-poeterized
Post: post 7712526
Reason: Misleading title; it seems to be really mostly about keeping dbus off your system. Rename to '...non-dbus' or more generally 'Gentoo paranoid-mode'
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steveL
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
User: miroR
Topic: Updating and keeping your Gentoo non-poeterized
Post: post 7712526
Reason: Misleading title; it seems to be really mostly about keeping dbus off your system. Rename to '...non-dbus' or more generally 'Gentoo paranoid-mode'

No it's about keeping all Poeterring stuff off someone's machine.

I agree it's gone into "blog-mode" again, but the title is not the issue there.
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asturm
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
No it's about keeping all Poeterring stuff off someone's machine.

It now goes far beyond that. And there might be innocent users around without a clue about all that Poettering stuff. Call the software by its name instead of damaging Gentoo community reputation.


Last edited by asturm on Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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steveL
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
No it's about keeping all Poeterring stuff off someone's machine.

genstorm wrote:
There might be innocent users around without a clue about all that Poettering stuff.

That does not change the fact that it is about the provenance, not the individual project.
Quote:
Call the software by its name instead of giving the Gentoo community bad reputation.

Oh please. This is a chat forum, open to anyone. As such no-one thinks that every post must reflect anything at all, unlike when a developer posts to their mailing-list, when one might reasonably expect higher standards.

As pointed out, listing the names of the software is misleading, since it is about provenance, not the actual package names.

By all means start another thread if you wish to discuss the "bad reputation" engendered by people freely expressing their choices, opinions or views.
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asturm
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
Oh please. This is a chat forum, open to anyone. As such no-one thinks that every post must reflect anything at all, unlike when a developer posts to their mailing-list, when one might reasonably expect higher standards.

It's in Desktop Environments sub, and I understand Gentoo Forums are moderated (more so than OTW).

steveL wrote:
As pointed out, listing the names of the software is misleading, since it is about provenance, not the actual package names.

By all means start another thread if you wish to discuss the "bad reputation" engendered by people freely expressing their choices, opinions or views.

I perfectly understand you have a blind spot there.
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steveL
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
It's in Desktop Environments sub, and I understand Gentoo Forums are moderated (more so than OTW).

And your moderation "complaint" was that it has a "misleading title", which is patently not the case.
Quote:
I perfectly understand you have a blind spot there.

Nice attempt at trolling me, but it only makes me chuckle.

The same reasoning applies to anyone on these forums, discussing just about anything: that's the whole point of a community forum.

I understand you'd like everyone to think like you, and behave exactly as you'd expect them to, even if you don't actually live up to it yourself. However, you'll get over that, in time (or be a very sad bunny.)

Since you're not adding anything substantive, merely repeating yourself and trolling, I'm out.

Good day.
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asturm
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
genstorm wrote:
It's in Desktop Environments sub, and I understand Gentoo Forums are moderated (more so than OTW).

And your moderation "complaint" was that it has a "misleading title", which is patently not the case.

No one asked for your opinion in the first place.

Meanwhile, the user himself has declared the thread in question a continuation of his own existing thread.


Last edited by asturm on Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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szatox
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually steveL is right here, the title is far from missleading even though you used it as a reason to report.
And if you're in for growling and barking, genstorm, nobody asked about your opinion even a tiny bit more than steveL's, so
Quote:
No one asked for your opinion in the first place.
seems to be a perfectly valid reason to report you for being rude.
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krinn
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
No one asked for your opinion in the first place.

What a user may think is "bad" might be good or even acceptable for another ; and people are asked to report what they think as bad and mods will tell if it was acceptable or not.
So you are never reporting an issue ; but what you think looks like an issue for you -> your opinion.

This thread is then just a thread for users to express their opinion on "something that might be an issue"


I dunno why you seems a bit upset if someone disagree with your view on "your issue" ; while i'm pretty sure you won't get upset if a mod disagree with you and says your issue wasn't one...
Without even looking at the post i could say you are right and wrong : i know miroR enough to know the thread content : a title that may be close to subject (hard to tell as it should have many subjects in it), but the thread should be more like a blog speaking of everything from the main subject to even speaking about flowers or anything ; with zillions links to other threads he made, some screencaps of someone hacking something, and a few words on croatia representative, nsa, pottering, and isp rats (in random order)...

Hehe, if i were myself a mod i would answer you : ok, so what title would be good for you?
Because from the thread content (that i didn't look at), i'm pretty sure you couldn't gives any better title to any mirroR's thread :)
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asturm
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You both miss the fact that my report could have been perfectly well ignored (fine for me if mods don't take action). Naturally though, I answer to steveL. But this is no discussion thread.

krinn wrote:
Because from the thread content (that i didn't look at)

How does that go together with posting in here?
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krinn
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
But this is no discussion thread.

Look at first post of pilla and tells me where users are asked to not discuss in this thread :)
It would be a bit hard to not being able to discuss no? Wouldn't you love the ability to object or raise your arguments if you were report yourself by someone?
Mods will not ignore your post, they may not take action, but everyone would expect your issue look and process. Not taking action is not ignoring an issue, just not having the result you were expecting but your issue was process.

genstorm wrote:
krinn wrote:
Because from the thread content (that i didn't look at)
How does that go together with posting in here?

Well, i suppose to tell if a thread subject doesn't match the content, you should know the content to answer, but i'm used to mirroR's threads content, and i honestly tells you i didn't look at it (in the case that the content is different than his usual content). I'm not a mod, so i took the shortcut to not look at the content (good reading the one who will).
I'm not interest in your issue, as your issue result wouldn't be that much of a problem (title change is no big deal), it was more about your "upset" answer that was looking odd for me.
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asturm
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
it was more about your "upset" answer that was looking odd for me.

But I'm perfectly calm, just stating the obvious. I don't see why you get worked up about it...

Now, had I seen his existing thread earlier, I would have just requested a merge.
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krinn
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
krinn wrote:
it was more about your "upset" answer that was looking odd for me.

But I'm perfectly calm, just stating the obvious. I don't see why you get worked up about it...

Well, you weren't looking that happy for me, note that i use "upset" and not upset, but your answer was looking angry for me ; and i was trying to point out you don't seems to be happy because someone disagree with your opinion, that would be no less the same as if a mod disagree with you finally.
So a "no need to get angry for nothing" answer :)
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steveL
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
it was more about your "upset" answer that was looking odd for me.

genstorm wrote:
But I'm perfectly calm, just stating the obvious. I don't see why you get worked up about it...

Yes, there's nothing at all waspish about "No one asked for your opinion in the first place."

But you've recovered your poise and here you are trying to troll krinn, of all people. Good one. lol
Quote:
Now, had I seen his existing thread earlier, I would have just requested a merge.

Which would also be the wrong move; the thread is clearly labelled, and clearly at least some others find the topic interesting.

Even if none of us particularly like's miroR's rambling style, it's a helluva lot more supportive than your whining.

That's just my opinion of your statements ofc, which I'm as free to express as you are yours.

Thanks for making me smile though; watching you wasp it out with the others, none of whom is anywhere near as bothered, was really quite amusing.
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asturm
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the second time you're swinging your preemptive trollbat at me. Mind you, only one of us is denouncing the other's posts. I'm really wondering what makes you so attached to the matter that you now even feel the urge to speak on krinn's behalf...

steveL wrote:
Which would also be the wrong move;

I fully trust the moderators to draw their own conclusions, without assuming any particular outcome.

@krinn: If you have doubts about emotions, carried over an emotionless medium, the default assumption should be 'neutral'. Makes for better discussions. ;)
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szatox
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I fully trust the moderators to draw their own conclusions
No, you don't. If you did, you would have stopped replying here long time ago as there is nothing more to be said.

Now, keep arguing
*bringing popcorn
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desultory
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khayyam wrote:
Reason: more incomprehensible blogging ... I think somone ("esp. gentoo moderators") are supposed to "assess[ing] the viability" of the post so he can send it to his ISP (we can assume) ... oh, its "urgent".
We generally do perform viability assays, though we do at times suggest switching to decaf or less potent classes of certain recreational substances when the need arises.

While miroR's tendency to post in that manner is perhaps not what I would consider optimal, I am not entirely sure that it should be prohibited outright. An aside to the other fruit flavored posters: if anyone feels the need to manage miroR's tendencies in a more proactive manner, they are more than welcome to it.

Either way, split from the reports topic to keep it to a manageable size.
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

desultory wrote:
khayyam wrote:
Reason: more incomprehensible blogging ... I think someone ("esp. gentoo moderators") are supposed to "assess[ing] the viability" of the post so he can send it to his ISP (we can assume) ... oh, its "urgent".

We generally do perform viability assays, though we do at times suggest switching to decaf or less potent classes of certain recreational substances when the need arises.

desultory ... as this post has long since been edited I think you've missed the point. The post contained a draft email that was to be sent to his ISP (within some hours ... as and when users/moderators had "assessed" it) that basically did two things, firstly it accused them of censorship of his mail, and secondly showed how knowledgeable he was on the question (linking, as per usual, to a great number of threads here). So, besides using the gentoo forums as a means to have a proxy discussion with his ISP (as the thread itself was linked and give them cause to believe that this was a public exposure of their wrong-doing) it was attempting to use the gentoo name as validation of those accusations when the actual reason for the issue was elsewhere (he was spamhaus'd due to his mail setup). So, that has long since been edited out (no doubt due to my report, and those of krinn and Ant P. ... the latter two reports which for some reason are no longer in existence). The thread is now on some other convoluted subject, but my reason for reporting it was simply so that moderators were aware of what he was up to, this is not the place to have a proxy discussion with your ISP, nor should he be posting emails he plans to send to third parties, nor should he being using the forum as a means to shame them publicly. The fact that he was completely wrong about what was happening, as krinn showed in his report, didn't deter him from persisting, so the requested "assessment" was only a matter of his view being validated, and not something of a dialogue about a problem, what was happening, why, etc, etc. That's a typical scenario ... lots of noise about some imagined problem, interspersed with all manner of other nonsense, links to his previous threads, vehement statements of his commitments to freedom, etc, etc ... none of which can easily be isolated and discussed as its a one man show ... he uses the forum as blogging platform.

desultory wrote:
While miroR's tendency to post in that manner is perhaps not what I would consider optimal, I am not entirely sure that it should be prohibited outright.

Sorry, but this is a moderation issue, its not one single post but the entire use the forum is put to, and how that reflects on the community as a whole. If we were all to ramp up our particular peccadilloes into torrents of confused noise then the signal is lost ... and that's basically what miroR's posts amount to ... 98% noise.

desultory wrote:
An aside to the other fruit flavored posters: if anyone feels the need to manage miroR's tendencies in a more proactive manner, they are more than welcome to it.

That's something that's been tried but found impossible ... no matter how many times its stated he simply doesn't listen ... in fact you'll get attacked for raising the issue.

best ... khay
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

desultory wrote:
While miroR's tendency to post in that manner is perhaps not what I would consider optimal, I am not entirely sure that it should be prohibited outright. An aside to the other fruit flavored posters: if anyone feels the need to manage miroR's tendencies in a more proactive manner, they are more than welcome to it.


Well, I simply ignore his ramblings, just as I ignore others that simply wish to argue/debate/ramble ad infinitum, ad nauseam.
IMO to carry on about another all the time, is simply doing the same thing. But I suppose that that truth is an inconvenient one.
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steveL
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
Well, I simply ignore his ramblings, just as I ignore others that simply wish to argue/debate/ramble ad infinitum, ad nauseam.
IMO to carry on about another all the time, is simply doing the same thing. But I suppose that that truth is an inconvenient one.

++

Loads of us ramble too. That's kinda the point of a chat forum.

I agree he needs to cut down the verbiage, and I do have that discussion with miroR on an ongoing basis; within the thread.

There simply isn't anything requiring formal complaint or moderation imo; at some point he'll learn that no-one is actually reading the entirety of his posts, and realise that he's wasting his own time, as well as alienating his readers.

At least he concedes mistakes where he makes them, and has gone back and edited posts to make them shorter on occasion. Both of these are indicators that he actually cares about being part of our community, to my mind, and that he's willing both to accept criticism and to modify his own behaviour (where that makes sense to him, as with anyone.) AFAIC that's a lot more to work with than many, including some of his critics.

As for ISPs etc, they're used to dealing with the occasional oddball. Let's not lose any sleep over it.

In 5 years or so, I doubt miroR's posts will be anything like the same. Whereas I'm pretty sure some of us, including the developers, will still be as vindictive as ever.

As Anon said, just don't read the thread if it makes you so incensed.
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