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Havin_it
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:27 am    Post subject: Qt5, LXQt0.8+, KDE5 - what to do and when Reply with quote

Hi,

So Qt5 is now in the tree, as are LXQt-0.8.0 (and now 0.9.0) and some parts of KDE Thingies v5. However it seems like there is very little being said about this, especially on the KDE side compared to the climate leading up to the KDE4 launch. There is not much info on the wiki so I'm hoping someone can give some idea what to expect, and what (if any) action users should be taking in the near future.

First thing I'm curious about is the USE=qt5 flag. I'm sure I heard earlier that this would need to be globally enabled for some packages in order for LXQt to work, and perhaps that's correct (not investigated yet) but it didn't prevent me installing it. What's that about? Should I (or must I) globally enable the flag now, or might there be problems elsewhere (especially in KDE, but also Scribus which I'm using heavily right now) if I do so?

Secondly, I currently have KDE4 installed via kdebase-meta. How is the upgrade to KDE5 in its many parts supposed to work for us Gentooers, and what manual action is likely to need to be taken? As the packages seem to be creeping in very incrementally, will there actually be a definitive moment of "you are now on KDE5" and if so what will it be? (Maybe I'm asking this too soon, but I like to be prepared!)

Crucially, is there any risk of taking that step up and finding that any of the K applications are not ready yet, since their release scheduling seems quite independent from the other main parts (Frameworks, whatever that actually means, and Plasma)? This is a worry. Is there anywhere an index of which applications are K5-ready yet or not, or does it actually not matter?

I didn't find KDE4 as much of an upgrade headache as most people seemed to at the time, but I get the feeling this time might be a bit more complex, so any info to put me in the picture (or just calm my paranoia) would be welcome.
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Roman_Gruber
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you may check out the kde overlay or what it was called for the very new kde stuff.

else the qt5 thing gives me a lot of headache because everyday portage complains, so i unmerge old qt5 things and than it goes on... no idea if its useful as of now.
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albright
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A thread dedicated to kde5 is a great idea.

I have replaced my desktop with version 5 on a thinkpad T440S. Some packages have to be
rebuilt with "minimal" useflag. The version 5 apps come from the kde
overlay. Sometimes there are build problems but they've always gone
away very quickly.

I have shied away from using meta packages; they bring in an unholy mix
of version 4-9999 packages and 5-9999 packages.

Right now, the *only* thing that is not working for me is the system tray
(as workaround I use wmsystemtray).

I have not tried an external monitor however, I've heard that isn't working very
well yet (anyone know about this?).

I don't know anything about LXQT
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Voltago
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

albright wrote:
I have not tried an external monitor however, I've heard that isn't working very
well yet (anyone know about this?).

I'm driving two monitors with plasma5, and apart from a certain slowness when starting plasma or when the monitor configuration changes, it works well enough.
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bec
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kde developers consider that kde4 desktop (plasma) and kde5 desktop are exclusive. I think Gentoo developers agree.

What I do is to keep a kde4 desktop with kde4/qt4 applications. I also have installed kde-frameworks (without networkmanger-qt for a collision) and lxqt-0.9 just for testing.

To install a kde5 desktop I think you have to add the kde overlay and uninstall many kde4 packages. However, kde4 applications still not ported must run correctly in a kde5 desktop.

Anyway, there is an automatically generated page with the porting status of many kde packages to kf5:

http://developer.kde.org/~cfeck/portingstatus.html
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Superfox_il_Volpone
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey,
I'm currently trying the new KDE 5. I'm coming from GNOME3, after it stopped working I suspect due to a bad update. I removed it and installed KDE5 from scratch. Everything is working fine till now, though occasional crashes occur.
I followed the notes from http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/KDE/Overlay . It took me two days. Consider I am also a quite ignorant user and it was mostly a try & error process.
That's what I have done:
I set the sym links to the /etc/portange folders from /var/lib/layman/kde/Documentation for package{.use, accept_keywords, .mask, unmask} related to kde-plasma-5.2 and kde-frameworks-5.7
I found it exists a profile for plasma/systemd, and manually set to /usr/portage/profiles/default/linux/amd64/13.0/desktop/plasma/systemd . I am not sure it added any benefit though..
I suspect emerge @kde-plasma-5.2 should be the way to go, but it gave so many conflicts between qt5 and qt4 + kdelibs, that I pulled only kde-plasma/plasma-desktop to begin. You can see the other apps that would have been pulled from /var/lib/layman/kde/sets/kde-plasma-5.2 . To solve the conflicts I disabled the flags for qt4, qt3support and kde in make.conf . I think all packages from kde-plasma-5.2 can be pulled without the need for kdelibs/qt4, except for the network manager. That is fine for me as my internet connection is "hardcoded" with the wpa_supplicant in a service.
For this reason I spent a significant amount of time to defuse the dependencies, in particular towards kdelibs, acting on the useflags.

Regarding the dual monitors, initially they only worked as mirrors. In particular kscreen wasn`t able to discriminate the monitors. There are several people in the forums all complaining about this same issue. I know my configuration was fine because when trying with fluxbox, it was correctly extending the screen across the two monitors. When I was about to give up KDE5 for this limitation, I re-installed GNOME3, which still doesn't work, and it probably set some configuration or installed a required package that allowed the dual monitor setup to work also in KDE5. Now I can see in kscreen that both displays are properly recognised.

The biggest issue I did not solve so far is the inability to have both qt4 & qt5 installed at the same time, see http://pastebin.com/J8NkBRcj . This does not allow to install many basic kde programs, such as Dolphin, that still require qt4. For clementine, I installed it manually from the source.

Besides that, the system is very usable.

Kind regards,
s.fox
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Havin_it
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, looks like albright is right about appetite for a KDE5 thread ;) Thanks for the replies, all.

Personally I've no interest in mucking about with overlays (well, not for anything this big). I'm sure there will still be plenty of beta-testing to be done once it gets into the tree :lol: so I'm content to wait for that. And if something as integral as Dolphin isn't ready yet, then there's no way (I still prefer konqueror as file-manager, but that uses the Dolphin KPart so that'll be waiting too).

What I was more getting at was, how is the upgrade going to be organised at that point? But perhaps that isn't planned out yet.

Re the applications, I particularly wonder how that'll work. Will there still be the kde*-meta ebuilds, or will it just be Frameworks, Plasma and individual applications? Does that mean it'll be necessary to add any individual apps pulled in by kdebase-meta to the world file, to ensure whatever replaces it is blocked until they are all KDE5-ready? Many questions, probably all speculative for the moment, but speculative opinions are welcome from those with any insight.

bec wrote:
Kde developers consider that kde4 desktop (plasma) and kde5 desktop are exclusive. I think Gentoo developers agree.

What I do is to keep a kde4 desktop with kde4/qt4 applications. I also have installed kde-frameworks (without networkmanger-qt for a collision) and lxqt-0.9 just for testing.

To install a kde5 desktop I think you have to add the kde overlay and uninstall many kde4 packages. However, kde4 applications still not ported must run correctly in a kde5 desktop.

Anyway, there is an automatically generated page with the porting status of many kde packages to kf5:

http://developer.kde.org/~cfeck/portingstatus.html


This is very handy, thanks - that page is insta-bookmarked (although the layout could be better: column-headers and a key would be more readable than those tooltips).
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albright
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The biggest issue I did not solve so far is the inability to have both qt4 & qt5 installed at the same time,


I have both qt4 and qt5 installed with apparently no problem. I'm not sure
where your problem is coming from (FWIW, my qtchooser is built with
-qt5 useflag).
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Havin_it
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

albright wrote:
Quote:
The biggest issue I did not solve so far is the inability to have both qt4 & qt5 installed at the same time,


I have both qt4 and qt5 installed with apparently no problem. I'm not sure
where your problem is coming from (FWIW, my qtchooser is built with
-qt5 useflag).


I wondered about this bit as well. I note that in your paste you're actually trying a new install of Qt4. I wonder what would happen if you temporarily unmerged all Qt5 packages (you could quickpkg them first to save time reinstalling) and qtchooser, then try again to install Qt4?

It's definitely a quirk of the overlay anyway, as I (without it) have both installed no problem. As albright said, the qt5 flag on qtchooser may well be the issue.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superfox_il_Volpone wrote:
The biggest issue I did not solve so far is the inability to have both qt4 & qt5 installed at the same time, see http://pastebin.com/J8NkBRcj . This does not allow to install many basic kde programs, such as Dolphin, that still require qt4.

That's because you're mixing stable and testing. That won't work. It's probably best to go completely testing (~amd64 or whatever your arch is), or at least for all the desktop related stuff.

You need >=qt*- 4.8.6-r1 and >=qt*-5.4.0 (now on 5.4.1). Earlier Qt4 versions do not allow for parallel slotted install.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: Qt5, LXQt0.8+, KDE5 - what to do and when Reply with quote

Havin_it wrote:
First thing I'm curious about is the USE=qt5 flag. I'm sure I heard earlier that this would need to be globally enabled for some packages in order for LXQt to work, and perhaps that's correct (not investigated yet) but it didn't prevent me installing it. What's that about? Should I (or must I) globally enable the flag now, or might there be problems elsewhere (especially in KDE, but also Scribus which I'm using heavily right now) if I do so?

There is no must here. LXQt is Qt5 only from 0.8.0 onwards. So you need qt5 useflag enabled for relevant dependencies of LXQt. Other than that it doesn't really matter. Qt4 apps will work fine within the LXQt desktop.
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Havin_it
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Qt5, LXQt0.8+, KDE5 - what to do and when Reply with quote

yngwin wrote:
Havin_it wrote:
First thing I'm curious about is the USE=qt5 flag. I'm sure I heard earlier that this would need to be globally enabled for some packages in order for LXQt to work, and perhaps that's correct (not investigated yet) but it didn't prevent me installing it. What's that about? Should I (or must I) globally enable the flag now, or might there be problems elsewhere (especially in KDE, but also Scribus which I'm using heavily right now) if I do so?

There is no must here. LXQt is Qt5 only from 0.8.0 onwards. So you need qt5 useflag enabled for relevant dependencies of LXQt. Other than that it doesn't really matter. Qt4 apps will work fine within the LXQt desktop.


Shouldn't the LXQt packages have dependencies on <somepackage>[qt5] then? From what you say, it sounds like I can expect my just-installed 0.9.0 not to work because I didn't enable the flag. Shouldn't that be prevented?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Qt5, LXQt0.8+, KDE5 - what to do and when Reply with quote

Havin_it wrote:
Shouldn't the LXQt packages have dependencies on <somepackage>[qt5] then? From what you say, it sounds like I can expect my just-installed 0.9.0 not to work because I didn't enable the flag. Shouldn't that be prevented?

Obviously the qt5 useflag is required in that case. And actually this useflag only needs to be set for polkit-qt. Other than that LXQt simply depends on Qt5 packages.

So there is no need to set qt5 as global useflag. But it may be convenient in order to get other applications with qt5 support enabled.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Qt5, LXQt0.8+, KDE5 - what to do and when Reply with quote

yngwin wrote:
Havin_it wrote:
Shouldn't the LXQt packages have dependencies on <somepackage>[qt5] then? From what you say, it sounds like I can expect my just-installed 0.9.0 not to work because I didn't enable the flag. Shouldn't that be prevented?

Obviously the qt5 useflag is required in that case. And actually this useflag only needs to be set for polkit-qt. Other than that LXQt simply depends on Qt5 packages.

So there is no need to set qt5 as global useflag. But it may be convenient in order to get other applications with qt5 support enabled.


Aha, I get it now - thanks. I assumed there'd be more deps, and the Qt choice would be binary, but I see that polkit-qt builds separate libraries for qt4 and qt5 if both are enabled (qt5 is default-enabled for polkit-qt it appears).

Now just let me get out of this KDE session and try it out finally!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

albright wrote:
(FWIW, my qtchooser is built with -qt5 useflag).

Why?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the last few days I've unable to set custom wallpapers on
plasma desktop (neither my own or the ones provided by
kde; only the "pastel triangles" wallpaper shows)

anyone else suffering this?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, the desktop wallpaper setting issue has now been fixed
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