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| Which should be the default in Gentoo, ffmpeg or libav? |
| I prefer ffmpeg, and it should be the default. |
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61% |
[ 199 ] |
| I prefer ffmpeg, but I am fine if libav is the default. |
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4% |
[ 14 ] |
| I prefer libav, and it should be the default. |
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5% |
[ 18 ] |
| I prefer libav, but I am fine if ffmpeg is the default. |
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2% |
[ 8 ] |
| I don't care about the default, but users should have a smooth experience with it, even if that means additional hardships for those who choose differently. |
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7% |
[ 24 ] |
| I don't care about the default, but it should be easy to use the non-default, even if that causes a less smooth experience for users of the default. |
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11% |
[ 38 ] |
| I don't care either way. |
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4% |
[ 14 ] |
| None of the above/Other (please comment) |
|
2% |
[ 7 ] |
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| Total Votes : 322 |
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Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6098
Location: Dallas area
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 Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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 lol
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Naib
Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6051
Location: Removed by Neddy
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Anon-E-moose wrote: |
lol |
It would be funny if that was ubuntu or windows... but this is gentoo and its complicating things...
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John R. Graham
Administrator
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 10589
Location: Somewhere over Atlanta, Georgia
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | ...
Meanwhile users are being hit with build warnings like this: http://dpaste.com/2Z01BDK as projects relying on ffmpeg are also now having to deal with the fallout of the libav stomping on the library namespace while not being a dropin replacement... |
Pastebins disappear in fairly short order and this is worth preserving: | Code: | ======================================================================
WARNING: you have chosen to build gst-ffmpeg against a random
external version of Libav instead of building it against the tested
internal Libav snapshot that is included with gst-ffmpeg.
This is a very bad idea. So bad in fact that words cannot express
just how bad it is. Suffice to say that it is BAD.
The GStreamer developers cannot and will not support a gst-ffmpeg
built this way. Any bug reports that indicate there is an external
version of Libav involved will be closed immediately without further
investigation.
The reason such a setup can't be supported is that the Libav API
and ABI is in constant flux, yet there aren't any official releases
of the Libav library to develop against. This makes it impossible
to guarantee that gst-ffmpeg will work reliably, or even compile,
with a randomly picked version Libav. Even if gst-ffmpeg compiles
and superficially appears to work fine against your chosen external
Libav version, that might just not be the case on other systems, or
even the same system at a later time, or when using decoders,
encoders, demuxers or muxers that have not been tested.
Please do not create or distribute binary packages of gst-Libav
that link against an external ffmpeg. Thank you!
====================================================================== |
- John
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Naib
Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6051
Location: Removed by Neddy
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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good point, forgot that nugget...
Needless to say, the actions of Gentoo developers are putting gentoo users in nomansland when it comes to support... support for what can only be describe as alpha software pushed by gentoo as production ready.
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229566
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Which port is that? There's no gst-ffmpeg in portage (only gst-plugins-ffmpeg), and in fact I can't find such wording in any of the ebuilds. |
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Naib
Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6051
Location: Removed by Neddy
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| GrueXYZ wrote: |
Which port is that? There's no gst-ffmpeg in portage (only gst-plugins-ffmpeg), and in fact I can't find such wording in any of the ebuilds. |
its gst-plugins-ffmpeg and its the build message from the source NOT a message in the ebuild from gentoo dev's
read here: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1010382-highlight-.html
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Anon-E-moose
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Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6098
Location: Dallas area
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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The ebuild is gst-plugins-ffmpeg* and the source file is gst-ffmpeg-*
The message is in the configure script in gst-ffmpeg-*
Naib, I was laughing because I thought it was a joke, but it seems to be serious, which makes me want to just shake my head in disbelief.
And they want to make libav the default. What a bad joke.
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229566
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Posts: 127
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Naib
Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6051
Location: Removed by Neddy
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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if it is updated then thats at least a good thing, but then raises the question, as you have. why is that in the tree?
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Anon-E-moose
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Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6098
Location: Dallas area
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| GrueXYZ wrote: | | Why is this plugin still at version 0.10.13 in Gentoo? |
In the 1.* versions of gst-plugins-meta they changed to gst-plugins-libav and trigger off virtual/ffmpeg.
As to why the 0.10* versions, they are still used by some software, or were 6 months ago when I fine tuned my system to remove all the old stuff.
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229566
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Anon-E-moose wrote: | | In the 1.* versions of gst-plugins-meta they changed to gst-plugins-libav and trigger off virtual/ffmpeg. |
Oh, okay, I see that now. Thanks. |
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davidm
Guru
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 557
Location: US
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steveL
Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:39 am Post subject: |
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I agree, it is a fiasco.
Whoever the "developer" is who's pushing libav, because s/he works on it, whatever their position in the pecking order, they need a good dressing-down, afaic, on the nature of what a distribution is, and is not.
First and foremost it exists for its users, not its developers, whatever crazy ideas they've got in their heads about the tree being "their" playground.
Without users there is no distro: developers come from the userbase, not the other way round. Period.
So much for QA. |
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ff11
l33t
Joined: 10 Mar 2014
Posts: 664
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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I read the impartial report of the facts from one Mplayer dev (please, Please, PLEASE! read this):
http://blog.pkh.me/p/13-the-ffmpeg-libav-situation.html
I'm against have this child play come to gentoo. The libav is a fork, and have to accept the fact, not to force the other to make it default to make it popular (even if we have one of libav dev on the time, he have to be impartial when working here).
If you read the link, you can see a serious problem with security issues on libav. And having one libav dev on gentoo team, make me worry about the "hard mask of ffmpeg recent version" and "unmask the libav" thing, and the future support for ffmpeg on gentoo too. By the way, I have unmasked (package.unmask) the ffmpeg 2.5.3 and it work wonderful with my VLC 2.1.5 (motive that it have been hard masked, and without a bug report for reference too)
If the libav dev is reading this, please (I'm asking you) stop the kids play, and make it work together with ffmpeg. I'm all in this opinion too:
"... On the other hand I think both projects could be kept in sync somehow (if Libav wakes up someday), with different methods of development, and even different goals: FFmpeg can be trying to support even more crazy exotic formats while Libav could decide to drop some because it is a "maintenance burden". It's a good thing to affirm these differences for both sides ("we support everything" vs "we have less crap"), what isn't is their contemptuous behaviour towards developers and users."
But for this happen the libav devs have to "wakes up someday" (I will hope for this) |
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steveL
Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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I wasn't going to (working, on a smoke break), but thanks it was very informative.
| Quote: | | I'm against have this child play come to gentoo. The libav is a fork, and have to accept the fact, not to force the other to make it default to make it popular (even if we have one of libav dev on the time, he have to be impartial when working here). |
Absolutely; whatever else is going on, when you have your Gentoo hat on, you represent the users' interests. Or kindly work somewhere else.
| Quote: | | If you read the link, you can see a serious problem with security issues on libav. And having one libav dev on gentoo team, make me worry about the "hard mask of ffmpeg recent version" and "unmask the libav" thing, and the future support for ffmpeg on gentoo too. By the way, I have unmasked (package.unmask) the ffmpeg 2.5.3 and it work wonderful with my VLC 2.1.5 (motive that it have been hard masked, and without a bug report for reference too) |
I was under the impression libav was the smoking biscuit, these last couple of years. I'm very disappointed to learn that our distro has been letting us down so badly, and so shabbily.
| Quote: | | If the libav dev is reading this, please (I'm asking you) stop the kids play, and make it work together with ffmpeg. |
I don't think it's just kid's play; it's politicking. The part about "How come Libav is so widely spread then?" reminded me a great deal of the kind of propaganda campaign the systemdiots wage. Even more so when I read again the part about contemptuous behaviour toward the rest of the community. |
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AlonzoTG
n00b
Joined: 04 Feb 2015
Posts: 5
Location: Vienna, VA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:42 am Post subject: How a typical user works |
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Here's a CLUE for the libav cultists about the mindset of the typical user.
Ten years ago, the only video player I could get to work on my system was xine. Since it basically works, I have never gone shopping since.
If it were to stop working, I would first try to fix it, then I would go shopping. When crap like this happens, and I can trace it to this kind of issue, I will subscribe to the forums for the first time ever to make my voice heard.
But in a week I will close this browser tab and apply the fixes and return to my 3-year old job hunt, which really is a much more important thing I need to do with my life right now...
Now when you make it harder for me to use ffmpeg, which I expect you to do, I will complain, loudly, apply a hack (if possible) and go back to my daily life of looking for a job.
When someone comes up to me on the street and asks me about linux, I'll say "Well, it's a great idea but you have to hack around a bunch of crap put in your way by some self-important asshats. It has really gotten to the point that you might as well continue to use Windows because, usually, they still make a pretence of serving their customers..."
That is what this comes down to for the typical user. |
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ulenrich
Veteran
Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1480
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:17 am Post subject: |
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I doubt steveL did read this blog in full length, because it was written there 2012 why indeed Libav
| steveL wrote: | | I was under the impression libav was the smoking biscuit, these last couple of years. I'm very disappointed to learn that our distro has been letting us down so badly, and so shabbily. |
(Libav) was the "smoking biscuit". Gentoo as a meta distribution slowly adapts defaults when set once at a time. Because these defaults are meaningless anyway to users who make their own personal distribution utilizing masks, keywords and flags.
| steveL wrote: | I agree, it is a fiasco.
Whoever the "developer" is who's pushing libav, because s/he works on it, whatever their position in the pecking order, they need a good dressing-down, afaic, on the nature of what a distribution is, and is not.
First and foremost it exists for its users, not its developers, whatever crazy ideas they've got in their heads about the tree being "their" playground. |
Blindly following Gentoo defaults may result in Your fiasco. A meta distribution needs some user activity to customize. I never had the impression Gentoo developers are biased and playing politics regarding vlc/ffmpeg:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=466300
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=489972
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=479566
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=518604
Gnu is not Unix has constantly used negating expressions. It signifies its academical origin. Which means you well may use masked packages (positively spoken).
The latest accomplishment, having:
| Code: | | media-plugins/gst-plugins-libav-1.4.5-r1:1.0::gentoo USE="-libav orc" |
at first glance may give the impression the most importent and ancient Gentoo bug is solved: | Code: | | USE=bull emerge cow |
in a way to really make USE flags omnipotent. But obviously this is not the case: You are not able to uninstall the package by using its negated USE. The incomplete "-libav" negation seems to me more like a punishment for rude behavior against Gentoo developers. |
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ff11
l33t
Joined: 10 Mar 2014
Posts: 664
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| ulenrich wrote: | I doubt steveL did read this blog in full length, because it was written there 2012 why indeed Libav
| steveL wrote: | | I was under the impression libav was the smoking biscuit, these last couple of years. I'm very disappointed to learn that our distro has been letting us down so badly, and so shabbily. |
(Libav) was the "smoking biscuit". Gentoo as a meta distribution slowly adapts defaults when set once at a time. Because these defaults are meaningless anyway to users who make their own personal distribution utilizing masks, keywords and flags.
| steveL wrote: | I agree, it is a fiasco.
Whoever the "developer" is who's pushing libav, because s/he works on it, whatever their position in the pecking order, they need a good dressing-down, afaic, on the nature of what a distribution is, and is not.
First and foremost it exists for its users, not its developers, whatever crazy ideas they've got in their heads about the tree being "their" playground. |
Blindly following Gentoo defaults may result in Your fiasco. A meta distribution needs some user activity to customize. I never had the impression Gentoo developers are biased and playing politics regarding vlc/ffmpeg:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=466300
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=489972
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=479566
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=518604
Gnu is not Unix has constantly used negating expressions. It signifies its academical origin. Which means you well may use masked packages (positively spoken).
The latest accomplishment, having:
| Code: | | media-plugins/gst-plugins-libav-1.4.5-r1:1.0::gentoo USE="-libav orc" |
at first glance may give the impression the most importent and ancient Gentoo bug is solved: | Code: | | USE=bull emerge cow |
in a way to really make USE flags omnipotent. But obviously this is not the case: You are not able to uninstall the package by using its negated USE. The incomplete "-libav" negation seems to me more like a punishment for rude behavior against Gentoo developers. |
Well, the situation not changed for good from 2012 to 2015, but progressed the way it started. And it make the 2012 blog very relevant and enlightening. In 2012 it was fun to read (the "kids play"), but on 2015 the situation are very sad and unpleasant. The users should accept that on the gentoo quiet? Just because the gentoo get one libav dev? If yes, then the gentoo is NOT for the users. If no, then the votes for ffmpeg will be the way it should go by default.
But is like you said, I just have to find out what packages is masked for sabotage or negligence, put a lot of lines on package.unmask, build a consistent /usr/local/portage/ for myself, and more, because the gentoo default for few people just want that way.
* On my /usr/portage/profiles/package.mask:
"# <vlc-2.2 will not work with this ffmpeg version; others to be investigated.
>=media-video/ffmpeg-2.3"
* On my system I have:
media-video/ffmpeg-2.5.3
media-video/vlc-2.1.5
working very well, without bugs
* On my home user, I have my own SVN of mplayer (that download the git ffmpeg) (the smplayer is a good GUI that can change easily the player)
* I have to take care of media-video/handbrake and other packages that use recent ffmpeg too.
All of this because the libav devs CAN'T work with the ffmpeg devs to make peace (forget work, they can't even accept the existence of ffmpeg, it's pure hate), and i can use some like "eselect ffmpeg set ?", and now the bad behave come for gentoo on the shape of default libav that want to replace ffmpeg all over the place. Not be one alternative, but replace, and that is the only thing I'm sure that they will do a hard work for (at least for 2012 until now on 2015). |
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khayyam
Watchman
Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Posts: 6227
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| ulenrich wrote: |
I doubt steveL did read this blog in full length, because it was written there 2012 why indeed Libav |
ulenrich ... you should provide some evidence for that "doubt" ... and as steveL's comment was on topic (namely the situation with libav/ffmpeg on gentoo) the reasons behind your "why indeed libav" (or "demotion of micheal", or coup, or fork) have nothing to do with it. I'm sure you probably meant to say something (other than expressing the doubt someone read the link, or not) but as is quite usual whatever it was is only known to you.
| ulenrich wrote: | | steveL wrote: | | I was under the impression libav was the smoking biscuit, these last couple of years. I'm very disappointed to learn that our distro has been letting us down so badly, and so shabbily. |
(Libav) was the "smoking biscuit". Gentoo as a meta distribution slowly adapts defaults when set once at a time. Because these defaults are meaningless anyway to users who make their own personal distribution utilizing masks, keywords and flags. |
Can you explain what the above means? I know that the "gentoo as a meta distribution" refrain provides the impression that there is some technical explanation involved, but what, other than the fact that the shared namespace, and two incompatible and conflicting implementations vying for that namespace, causes issues for gentoo users, "disappointment", etc, what exactly is "meaningless" here ... other than perhaps your technical explanation for such things being essentially "meaningless"?
| ulenrich wrote: | | steveL wrote: | | I agree, it is a fiasco. Whoever the "developer" is who's pushing libav, because s/he works on it, whatever their position in the pecking order, they need a good dressing-down, afaic, on the nature of what a distribution is, and is not. First and foremost it exists for its users, not its developers, whatever crazy ideas they've got in their heads about the tree being "their" playground. |
Blindly following Gentoo defaults may result in Your fiasco. A meta distribution needs some user activity to customize. |
Blindly stating the obvious may result in your missing a fiasco of your own making, namely that the ffmpeg/libav fork, and fallout, causes unnecessary pain to end users, and that this "meta distribution" argument doesn't make a blind bit of difference if a user needs to build two separate pieces of software that depend on having one or other implementation ... and that the point made by steve wrt "fiasco" (which other than you making it "[his] fiasco" you failed to address) is that we can assume that we arrived at this situation by, and for, some reason.
| ulenrich wrote: | | I never had the impression Gentoo developers are biased and playing politics regarding vlc/ffmpeg: |
I think it would be disingenuous to say that there are no politics, or bias, involved ... but that isn't really the issue as the point made above is more a question of who is acting in who's interest.
| ulenrich wrote: | | Gnu is not Unix has constantly used negating expressions. It signifies its academical origin. Which means you well may use masked packages (positively spoken). |
As someone who has studied semiotics: such a signification involves a sign, object, and an interpretant ... "which means" something more than an arbitrary selection of words.
best ... khay
edit: gahhh ... correction to the section on semiotics
Last edited by khayyam on Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:54 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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steveL
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Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| ulenrich wrote: | | I doubt steveL did read this blog in full length, because it was written there 2012 why indeed Libav |
Why are you responding to ff11 about what I said? Do you somehow think he'll be able to answer for me, or is it just that you cannot contain yourself?
| steveL wrote: | | I was under the impression libav was the smoking biscuit, these last couple of years. I'm very disappointed to learn that our distro has been letting us down so badly, and so shabbily. |
| ulenrich wrote: | | (Libav) was the "smoking biscuit". Gentoo as a meta distribution slowly adapts defaults when set once at a time. Because these defaults are meaningless anyway to users who make their own personal distribution utilizing masks, keywords and flags. |
First meaningless statement, followed by complete vague that has nothing to do with it. But hey, that's what passes for insight amongst the Nub-2.0.
| steveL wrote: | I agree, it is a fiasco.
Whoever the "developer" is who's pushing libav, because s/he works on it, whatever their position in the pecking order, they need a good dressing-down, afaic, on the nature of what a distribution is, and is not.
First and foremost it exists for its users, not its developers, whatever crazy ideas they've got in their heads about the tree being "their" playground. |
| Quote: | | Blindly following Gentoo defaults may result in Your fiasco. A meta distribution needs some user activity to customize. |
Again, more vague that doesn't have anything to do with anything. And suddenly it's My fiasco.
As usual you seek to personalise the discussion to turn it into an argument. Shame you don't actually have anything to say.
| Quote: | | Gnu is not Unix has constantly used negating expressions. It signifies its academical origin. Which means you well may use masked packages (positively spoken). |
WTF are you on about? How on Earth do "academical origins" whatever they are, have anything whatsoever to do with masking packages?
Positively speaking, that is.
| Quote: | | The latest accomplishment, having: gst-plugins-libav USE="-libav orc" at first glance may give the impression the most importent and ancient Gentoo bug is solved: |
Eh whut?
| Quote: | | USE=bull emerge cow in a way to really make USE flags omnipotent. |
I see: so this is just vitriol, again.
| Quote: | | But obviously this is not the case: You are not able to uninstall the package by using its negated USE. The incomplete "-libav" negation seems to me more like a punishment for rude behavior against Gentoo developers. |
Oh wonderful; we're all collectively being punished for "being rude" by "incomplete flag negation."
Man, your head sounds like one screwed-up place to live. You have my sympathies.
I am left wondering why you take what I said so personally. I'd swear you were Lennart or something, the amount of bile and insane invective on display.
Seriously, child, get a grip. |
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truekaiser
l33t
Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 801
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Correct me if i am wrong, but can't both be installed in different slots and just patch the programs that complain?? |
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ct85711
Veteran
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 1791
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Sadly no, both can not be installed at the same time, as they are providing the same libraries/namespace as the other one. |
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Naib
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6051
Location: Removed by Neddy
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ct85711 wrote: | | Sadly no, both can not be installed at the same time, as they are providing the same libraries/namespace as the other one. |
Exactly...
A fork would change the provided component names.
The issue here is libav do not consider themselves a fork, they consider ffmpeg a fork EVEN though their coup d'etat failed. The only things that were renamed were the ff* utilities (ffplay --> avplay, ffserver --> avserver etc.)
The important bigs, the api providing bits like: libavcodec.so, libavdevice.so, libavfilter.so etc use the EXACT same names installed to EXACTLY the same places (/usr/lib/) libav is stomping on ffmpeg's namespace.
The most sensible option to mitigate this Armistice (since technically they are both still at war) is they change their makefiles and install the libraries into /usr/lib/libav and /usr/lib/ffmpeg THEN if an application wants to side with one or the other OR relies on something specific they can. The distro then can symlink into /usr/lib/ from /usr/lib/{libav,ffmpeg} for their chosen allegiance (or gentoo user choice)
present apps will be unaffected due to the symlink, newer/updated apps can be lib agnostic by still linking against the generic link OR target a specific package.
Thing is both ffmpeg and libav would have todo with but libav are not even willing to acknowledge the other exists.
could distro's do the patching? sure but
1) gentoo tries to follow upstream as much as possible (its a debian/ubuntu thing to patch like crazy... removing short help options from commands *facepalm*)
2) it sidesteps around this childish behaviour
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krinn
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Posts: 7470
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | The only things that were renamed were the ff* utilities (ffplay --> avplay, ffserver --> avserver etc.) |
They don't stop with that only: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1010630-highlight-.html
Now that they rename functions in headers, keeping the name makes only sense if you want poison it, as your lib is no more a drop-in replacement of the lib name you share the name with. |
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steveL
Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| ct85711 wrote: | | Sadly no, both can not be installed at the same time, as they are providing the same libraries/namespace as the other one. |
| Naib wrote: | Exactly...
A fork would change the provided component names.
The issue here is libav do not consider themselves a fork, they consider ffmpeg a fork EVEN though their coup d'etat failed. |
It does not matter what they consider themselves. They could consider themselves the King of Siam, for all we know.
So it comes down to the distribution: first and foremost it's about your users, not about which pet-project one of your developers is in-love with this week.
| Quote: | | The most sensible option to mitigate this Armistice (since technically they are both still at war) is they change their makefiles and install the libraries into /usr/lib/libav and /usr/lib/ffmpeg |
That's one option, but it sucks because as you've pointed out it's the same library, with the same soname, and the same ABI, only it's crap: it does not provide the same ABI at all.
| Quote: | | Thing is both ffmpeg and libav would have todo with but libav are not even willing to acknowledge the other exists. |
Which simply means we should forget about them, then, as they're immature brats.
| Quote: | 1) gentoo tries to follow upstream as much as possible (its a debian/ubuntu thing to patch like crazy... removing short help options from commands *facepalm*)
2) it sidesteps around this childish behaviour |
And in the meantime your users are screwed? Fsck that. That's the worst thing the distro can do: cop out and let the users deal with the fallout.
Yes it's bad behaviour et al on the part of some "upstream" idiots. It's even more shameful that Gentoo has not simply dealt with it by removing the borked pretender.
Let alone the awful "how would you like to have your steaming turd delivered" thread. |
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