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Mercurioneo
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:38 am    Post subject: Systemd the only way now for Gnome 3? Reply with quote

Hello,

I am very new in gentoo. I would like to know if people here is using systemd or openrc. It seems that if you want to use Gnome 3 desktop environment you have to use systemd. I don't know if people using gentoo normaly install another desktop environment to use openrc or is using Gnome 3, Kde with systemd....

Thanks for your inputs.


Last edited by Mercurioneo on Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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py-ro
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AFAIK Gnome3 in Gentoo only works with Systemd, KDE does not need Systemd.

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rapelotus
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

systemd is now a mandatory dependency of Gnome3. Normally, if you want to use Gnome3, systemd must be installed. But I once heared there seemd somebody had removed the dependency between systemd and gnome3 in Funtoo. I am not very sure about it. And usually, many guys using other desktop environment use openrc. But, whether to use systemd depends entirely on your own.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Systemd the only way now? Reply with quote

Mercurioneo wrote:
It seems that if you want to use Gnome 3 desktop environment you have to use systemd. I don't know if people using gentoo normaly install another desktop environment to use openrc or is using Gnome 3, Kde with systemd....
Thanks for your inputs.


There are various desktop environments available in Gentoo, see here for some of them:

http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Recommended_applications#Desktop_environment

So Gnome is just one of them (and it happens to be one that needs systemd).

For KDE ( and many others) no systemd is needed, and many others also do not need systemd, as Py-ro and Repelotus say...

Alex.
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Mercurioneo
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

py-ro wrote:
AFAIK Gnome3 in Gentoo only works with Systemd, KDE does not need Systemd.

Bye
Py


So which desktop environment would you recommend for a newbie in gentoo? I read somewhere KDE has some bugs with gentoo...
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lexflex
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends on your needs and also on your hardware.
xfce is a more lightweight desktop, with less fancy stuff standard installed.
KDE (and Gnome I guess) are more 'complete' , with their own set of applications standard installed (like their own emailprogram, browser , etc). That said, many of those applications or alternatives can also be used with xfce...
Better just look at the projectpages of some of them, and then just choose one. You can always switch later ( or even install two) .

Alex.
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KDE works fine. If you're coming from the Windows world, you might be most comfortable with KDE initially. The biggest criticism of KDE is that it's not very light weight (has a lot of eye candy, bells & whistles, thus a lot of dependencies). You can have more than one, though, and thus experiment. ;)

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py-ro
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KDE(4) is the best KDE I ever had on any Distribution, because it is pretty vanilla.

KF5/Plasma5 ist not ready yet.

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Py
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercurioneo wrote:
py-ro wrote:
AFAIK Gnome3 in Gentoo only works with Systemd, KDE does not need Systemd.

Bye
Py


So which desktop environment would you recommend for a newbie in gentoo? I read somewhere KDE has some bugs with gentoo...


kde has some bugs but it's nothing to do with Gentoo. For example I've got three machines at home, all with laptop/mini-itx boards and all intel gfx. If I use opengl for desktop effects then it always resets the wallpaper to that awful elarun thing. On the laptop I'm sitting at after the last update the launch feedback has to be toggled off and on at boot to work. That's it though, trivial stuff.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:26 pm    Post subject: Try MATE Reply with quote

If you like Gnome but don't like systemd, there's always MATE (which is a fork of Gnome2). I run it and rather like it.
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Mercurioneo
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your answers, I am finally using KDE, and I like it a lot. I am very surprised with it :).
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The subject title makes an incorrect assumption; Gentoo itself very rarely forces choices like that, and when it does it's usually treated as a bug to be fixed.

So, it's not the case that systemd is the only option, but only that Gnome3 no longer wants itself to be an option.
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Naib
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its a funny history that this blog kind of covers (from gnome's pov...)

https://blogs.gnome.org/ovitters/2013/09/25/gnome-and-logindsystemd-thoughts/

GNOME were surprised that gentoo was making systemd a HARD-DEPENDANCY for gnome3 as it "doesn't hard-depend". It however does depend on a feature that systemd provides and other distributions mimicked (logind)
WTF gnome can newspeak spin that as "gnome3 does not depend on sysd" is another discussion

iirc it was something todo with login and cgroup segregation and a newer GDM didn't really clean up after itself and thus relied on something to isolate a users process (via cgroups) to kill them all. Why couldn't logging out of gnome clean up itself is another story, why could gnome itself manage cgroups is again another story,

Funtoo however were able to provide a shim/patchset to permit sysd-free gnome3.12 (maybe even 3.14) install. I thought such patches were absorbed into gentoo
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Mercurioneo
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
The subject title makes an incorrect assumption; Gentoo itself very rarely forces choices like that, and when it does it's usually treated as a bug to be fixed.

So, it's not the case that systemd is the only option, but only that Gnome3 no longer wants itself to be an option.


You are right, I have completed the sentence in the title. :)
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Try MATE Reply with quote

quinn_jones wrote:
If you like Gnome but don't like systemd, there's always MATE (which is a fork of Gnome2). I run it and rather like it.


I installed MATE then installing GDM to start MATE, gdm need systemd - IS THAT RIGHT? I want openrc.

In kernel source i exclude systemd and USE="-systemd"

Maybe it is a mistake?
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depontius
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Try MATE Reply with quote

TigerJr wrote:
quinn_jones wrote:
If you like Gnome but don't like systemd, there's always MATE (which is a fork of Gnome2). I run it and rather like it.


I installed MATE then installing GDM to start MATE, gdm need systemd - IS THAT RIGHT? I want openrc.

In kernel source i exclude systemd and USE="-systemd"

Maybe it is a mistake?


New gdm needs systemd. In the short run, I'm using a back-level gdm that doesn't need it. In the long run I need something else.
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swanson
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a display manager you could try MDM which is based off GDM 2.X and hence not (yet) ruined by Gnome 3 or systemd. It can aldo optionally use WebKit for HTML5 themes that I've been meaning to create but just haven't got round to yet. There's an ebuild in bug 428018, a couple of the patches no longer required for current source so I should update it.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Try MATE Reply with quote

depontius wrote:
TigerJr wrote:
quinn_jones wrote:
If you like Gnome but don't like systemd, there's always MATE (which is a fork of Gnome2). I run it and rather like it.


I installed MATE then installing GDM to start MATE, gdm need systemd - IS THAT RIGHT? I want openrc.

In kernel source i exclude systemd and USE="-systemd"

Maybe it is a mistake?


New gdm needs systemd. In the short run, I'm using a back-level gdm that doesn't need it. In the long run I need something else.


Awfull news! I will try MDM if it makes me happy
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i just back 20 years ago while trying to install from sources MDM, many errors with function prototypes...


making changes in sources, i geting awful comments in mdm/daemon/verify-pam.c

Quote:


/* Hack. Used so user does not need to select username in face browser again if pw was wrong. */

and
Quote:

/* Evil, but this way these things are passed to the child session. */


Is MDM secured?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Installed MDM but i can't input login\passwd. So hack didn't worked )
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