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azp
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:00 pm    Post subject: Deprecated common networking tools Reply with quote

Hi guys, just found a little handy list that surprised me a bit and I wanted to share it here. Many commands that I commonly use to check my network stats are actually deprecated (which can be seen as comments in this forum in some places as well).
Do you think there should be some official Gentoo information anywhere that these are actually not maintained anymore, and that more modern replacements exists?

https://dougvitale.wordpress.com/2011/12/21/deprecated-linux-networking-commands-and-their-replacements/

At least a comment in the package information that another package is a recommended substitute? An "eselect news" item?
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steveL
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Deprecated common networking tools Reply with quote

azp wrote:
At least a comment in the package information that another package is a recommended substitute? An "eselect news" item?

The former sounds feasible: an einfo or ewarn depending on how much of it is replaced by new commands, and whether it's part of a suite; there's quite a few "Not apparent" in that list.

The latter is a bit much, I think.

You could file an enhancement bug for the former, but I'd get some feedback from users of the relevant packages first as you are doing, as they might well not really be deprecated from their pov.

Still, nice find, thanks (bookmarked.)
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azp
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: Deprecated common networking tools Reply with quote

Thanks, I don't even remember why I stumbled upon the list =)
I think it was because I wanted to know how to get the protocol version from iwconfig.

steveL wrote:
... as they might well not really be deprecated from their pov.


I agree, from reading the list, it seems that the new tools might not fully replace the old ones yet. Some commands didn't yet seem to have a counterpart in the new utilities. They are probably still around and receives bugfixes (probably security mostly) but aren't updated together with the new kernel API:s.
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krinn
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The real question is : who/where/how they are deprecated???

That guy tell us they are deprecated, and the only given reason for that might be "These programs (except iwconfig) are included in the net-tools package that has been unmaintained for years."
That's not a reason to deprecated tools that works. They might just not be unmaintained, but frozen until a bug is found.


Actually the only source to backup this is a reddit discussion, that for me is as good as cows giving me advises.
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UberLord
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
The real question is : who/where/how they are deprecated???

That guy tell us they are deprecated, and the only given reason for that might be "These programs (except iwconfig) are included in the net-tools package that has been unmaintained for years."
That's not a reason to deprecated tools that works. They might just not be unmaintained, but frozen until a bug is found.



spot on.

Well, other tools which are "maintained" (ie semi regular updates) don't have all the features the "deprecated" tools do. He even gives a good example with arp.

Quote:
Actually the only source to backup this is a reddit discussion, that for me is as good as cows giving me advises.


Larry the Cow says "Mooooooooooo"
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krinn
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, actually i would really not giving up the "route -n" one considering how it save me many times!!!
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netixen
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These tools are in my muscle memory. And that's the case for most of us so I don't see myself dropping them anytime soon.
But I know iproute2 can do some advanced things. Can anyone talk about his experience with iproute2?
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mv
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

netixen wrote:
But I know iproute2 can do some advanced things. Can anyone talk about his experience with iproute2?

The most important case is probably if you setup you local ip and then get with dhcpcd another ip. You do not even see this new ip with ifconfig or route, but "ip route" shows you what it is.
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Slippery Jim
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ifconfig has been around in BSD since 1983, and I consider it a standard Unix tool, like ls or cat. It's simple, efficient, and cross platform to many Unices, and I use it all the time. Why in the world would we get rid of these kind of tools?
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Dr.Willy
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
The real question is : who/where/how they are deprecated???

Nope. The real question is whether iproute2 is better than the old net-tools.
On BSD ifconfig is used to configure most of your networking, including wireless encryption and thelike whereas on linux tools like wpa_supplicant took over that job and ifconfig is only used for very basic things.

Personally I prefer the iproute2 commands, because they seem more consistent to me. I don't think there are strong arguments to be made in favor of one or the other.
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slippery Jim wrote:
ifconfig has been around in BSD since 1983, and I consider it a standard Unix tool, like ls or cat. It's simple, efficient, and cross platform to many Unices, and I use it all the time. Why in the world would we get rid of these kind of tools?

Calling ifconfig cross-platform is like calling Skype cross-platform. Sure it is, if you can ignore the fact the Linux version is a completely different program with a fraction of the functionality.
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Slippery Jim
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting point. I guess I should go take a look at the new tools, and try to be more objective about it.
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boozo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Sorry for the ~necromancy : it's just for information because we have found a "news" about this today. It's seems that iproute2's push in @system is effective since some days only -> see #189149 for more details

Enjoy
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