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depontius
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:08 pm    Post subject: Avoiding masked packages... Reply with quote

Really avoiding systemd, but I didn't want to start another systemd thread.

I'm having increasing difficulty with the packages I have installed, because there have always been certain Gnome things that I liked. I've got a lot of stuff in /etc/portage/package.mask to keep me pre-systemd, but some number of them are now getting marked for removal. It's time to either create a local overlay so I can hold on to some of those old things or migrate to alternatives. Right now I have some specifics:

1 - gdm - I really like having autologin, remote X access, and I even use XDCMP occasionally. Oh, and I also like shutdown/reboot controls. I'm not sure if any other display manager has all of these things. I did use XDM for a while with a hack I found to add shutdown/reboot buttons, but I had to redo it every time xdm was updated, and I believe I've lost those fixes at this point.

2 - gnucash - I have somewhere in the realm of a decade of home finance in it. But it's dependent on gnome-keyring and libgnome-keyring. Maybe I can let it go to the new version without the systemd camel getting its nose into my system, but these are my top candidates for a local overlay. Or if I have to find an alternative, at the moment I have no idea how to get my data out of gnucash and into something else.

3 - gthumb - It's a nice picture browser, and it doesn't insist on being your be-all end-all photo thingy, with its own editors and database, etc. I'm probably going to need to find an alternative, but would like something equally minimal. I just want a browser, and I want my photos stored in my file hierarchy. If it's got indexing that's OK, but I don't want an opaque photo bucket. I also want to use my choice of photo editors.

Or does someone already have an overlay of systemd avoidance?
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avx
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except for maybe kdm, I think there is no real alternative if you really are dependend on the features gdm gives. That said, SLIM is no longer maintained, still works (for now), though and you can use it to shutdown/reboot(no buttons, have to put the command in the username-field and give root's password).

Regarding xdm, what changes are you talking about? Config or actual patches to the code? Maybe it can be automated?

Regarding gthumb, never used it(I think), but what about gqview or it's successor geeqie? What features do you need? As a simple viewer, I also like sxiv and rely in part on the filemanager's thumbnails.

As for avoidance, don't have an overlay, just a package.exclude file, which so far worked pretty well, but then again, I'm not using many GUI apps so that might also be placebo.
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The Doctor
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
3 - gthumb - It's a nice picture browser, and it doesn't insist on being your be-all end-all photo thingy, with its own editors and database, etc. I'm probably going to need to find an alternative, but would like something equally minimal. I just want a browser, and I want my photos stored in my file hierarchy. If it's got indexing that's OK, but I don't want an opaque photo bucket. I also want to use my choice of photo editors.
You might want to give media-gfx/ristretto a try. I have found it fills the need very nicely.

Sorry, no real ideas for your other two.

There is a nice work around for shutdown/restart configuring sudo to allow you to use passwordless halt and reboot, but that doesn't integrate cleanly into most WM/DEs.
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mv
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

avx wrote:
That said, SLIM is no longer maintained, still works (for now)

No longer maintained!? That's close to a catastrophe :cry: Besides the really poor xdm this is the only display manager without severe dependencies.
Unfortunately, sddm depends on pam unconditionally; it makes no sense to install pam only to have a DM.
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The Doctor
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slim seems to be an odd case. Wikipedia lists it as in active development, but the Arch wiki has been calling it dead for quite some time. The truth is probably in the middle, but the bigger question is how long it can keep doing what it needs to do.

Actually, lxdm might fill some of the void. I haven't used a DM for well over a year so I can't comment on its current state, but it used to work quite nicely.
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avx
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mv wrote:
Unfortunately, sddm depends on pam unconditionally; it makes no sense to install pam only to have a DM.


Mh, it certainly looks like that in the ebuild, but the github page says

Quote:
If pam and systemd are available, the greeter will go through logind which will give it access to drm devices.

Distributions without pam and systemd will need to put the "sddm" user into the "video" group, otherwise errors regarding GL and drm devices might be experienced.

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mv
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

avx wrote:
Mh, it certainly looks like that in the ebuild, but the github page says

Some releases ago, there was an explicit --with-pam switch for the configure process enabled by the ebuild.
I had disabled this switch explicitly, but compilation did not run through.
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depontius
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So for current status, I need to look at ristretto, sxiv, and geeqie. Fortunately none of them are Gnome packages, and for the moment they don't seem to drag a lot in, I can just check my own preferences and wife-test them.

I'm not familiar with package.exclude. I'm just thinking that at some point the gnome-keyring and libgnome-keyring that I need for gnucash are going to fall out of mainline portage, and I'd really like to have everything necessary to rebuild my system be available.

I'm not finding good comparisons of the various login managers that cover my needs. I see that sddm is currently masked because of a security problem.

Thinking more about my needs, I don't really need autologin and xdcmp on the same system. The reason for autologin is simply W.A.F. and need only be on her computer. I sometimes use XDCMP for work purposes, and that need only be on my computer. I need remote X and shutdown/reboot buttons everywhere. I have slim installed on a temporary computer, and was surprised to see that not only was no remote X the default, it didn't even have a way to configure for it. Since it was a temporary computer I didn't bother trying to hack it in.

As for XDM, I found some TK stuff that added shutdown/reboot buttons the the main screen. Basically I don't want to have to login just to shutdown or reboot.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i use lxdm to graphically log in ...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

depontius wrote:
So for current status, I need to look at ristretto, sxiv, and geeqie. Fortunately none of them are Gnome packages, and for the moment they don't seem to drag a lot in, I can just check my own preferences and wife-test them.


There are several similar tools that might do the job. But, if all you need is a preview of the files, then even thunar or pcmanfm might do the job. Then you can bind the images to something really simple, like feh or gpicview (which will allow rotation and basic navigation between them) and right click open with gimp for serious editing.

That depends on your usual workflow.

Quote:
I'm not familiar with package.exclude. I'm just thinking that at some point the gnome-keyring and libgnome-keyring that I need for gnucash are going to fall out of mainline portage, and I'd really like to have everything necessary to rebuild my system be available.


You can keep those forever in your local overlay. Seriously, what's the point in updating these three packages for personal finances management? It's not like you will be using the keyring in the Wall St. LAN.

Quote:

I'm not finding good comparisons of the various login managers that cover my needs. I see that sddm is currently masked because of a security problem.

Thinking more about my needs, I don't really need autologin and xdcmp on the same system. The reason for autologin is simply W.A.F. and need only be on her computer.


The DM alternatives are pretty clear, so I won't insist on them (I'll just point out the existence of qingy because it's less famous, in case you want to test it). I am sure you have already tried them all and discarded them for one or another reason. They all suck.

If you need autologin, simply use mingetty, then add startx to your .bashrc file. If you need details just ask. Then a line in sudoers and a couple of buttons in your desktop panel (whatever that is) is all you will need to hibernate, reboot or halt.

Quote:
I sometimes use XDCMP for work purposes, and that need only be on my computer. I need remote X and shutdown/reboot buttons everywhere. I have slim installed on a temporary computer, and was surprised to see that not only was no remote X the default, it didn't even have a way to configure for it. Since it was a temporary computer I didn't bother trying to hack it in.

As for XDM, I found some TK stuff that added shutdown/reboot buttons the the main screen. Basically I don't want to have to login just to shutdown or reboot.


You can do X forwarding via ssh, vnc/x2go/whatever else and a lot other things if you need secure remote access. You for sure don't need a reboot button in a remote login do you? As for local you can just press the power button. Acpid will do the job.

If you want you can just keep gdm 2. It will continue to work as well as it does now. Just overlay it and be done. You will need this to be able to compile the keyring:

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=513656
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've build gnome-keyring 3.12.2-r1without pulling in systemd, and when I use the -p option for gnucash, it pulls in a few different libgnome-keyring looks clear as well.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've unmasked gnome-keyring, libgnome-keyring, gcr in order to get gnucash to compile, without getting any systemd stuff in either.

Also unmasked gconf, libcanberra and gcalctool -- also so far so good, as my package.mask file gets a little smaller.
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depontius
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Life has been pretty busy for the past few weeks. This might be my first regular (not recently) weekly update since posting this thread. This morning/afternoon I modified /etc/portage/package.mask:
Code:
#May not need masking after all
# >=gnome-base/libgnome-keyring-3.8.0
# >=gnome-base/gnome-keyring-3.8.0
# >=app-crypt/gcr-3.8.0
# >=gnome-base/gconf-3.8.0
=media-libs/libcanberra-0.28-r4

and I'm still clean.

I've created a local overlay to keep the old version of gdm, though I haven't unmasked it, yet. I'm still getting hate-mail about:
gnome-base/gnome-panel-2.32.1-r3
app-text/evince-2.32.0-r4
gnome-base/gnome-menus-2.30.5-r1
dev-libs/libgweather-2.30.3

Code:
# equery depends gnome-panel gnome-menus libgweather
 * These packages depend on gnome-panel:
xfce-extra/xfce4-xfapplet-plugin-0.1.0 (gnome-base/gnome-panel[bonobo])

 * These packages depend on gnome-menus:
gnome-base/gnome-panel-2.32.1-r3 (>=gnome-base/gnome-menus-2.27.92:0)
x11-wm/icewm-1.3.8 (gnome ? gnome-base/gnome-menus)

 * These packages depend on libgweather:
gnome-base/gnome-panel-2.32.1-r3 (>=dev-libs/libgweather-2.27.90:2)
                                 (<dev-libs/libgweather-2.90.1:2)


I believe that icewm reference for gnome-menus a ringer, because it's built with USE="-gnome". I believe the root-evil here is xfce4-xfapplet-plugin, which doesn't even show up in portage, any more. I need to dig this out and find out how I'm supposed to get my xfce4 applets now.

If there is a real question here, it is for an acceptable replacement for "evince". I forget what I used to use, but it deprecated itself several years ago, and evince was suggested as a pdf viewer. Anyone have a replacement suggestion?
EDIT:
After a quick check, zathura and xournal seem "minimally connected", unlike gnome or kde stuff. I've loaded both for play, and removed evince. Things are looking cleaner now.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

depontius wrote:

If there is a real question here, it is for an acceptable replacement for "evince". I forget what I used to use, but it deprecated itself several years ago, and evince was suggested as a pdf viewer. Anyone have a replacement suggestion?
EDIT:
After a quick check, zathura and xournal seem "minimally connected", unlike gnome or kde stuff. I've loaded both for play, and removed evince. Things are looking cleaner now.

FWIW, I unmasked evince and gtk+, and built evince OK. Seems to 'work' right.

My goals may differ from yours -- I simply want to avoid systemd, but don't really care otherwise what GTK-like libraries are compiled in. It's very possible that what I'm doing is not recommended and may not be a long term solution. But with the moving target that is systemd assimilation I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
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mv
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

depontius wrote:
replacement for "evince".

mupdf and also (if you accept qt) qpdfview are very good pdf viewers.
If you look for something for making annotations, I am afraid that you are stuck to acroread.
olkular can also do annotations, but it saves them in its own format (not as part of the pdf).
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
Slim seems to be an odd case. Wikipedia lists it as in active development, but the Arch wiki has been calling it dead for quite some time. The truth is probably in the middle, but the bigger question is how long it can keep doing what it needs to do.

I wouldn't call it "dead", but "complete". After all there's only so many ways to display a static image, prompt for a login, and run a specified command on success.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

depontius wrote:
.
If there is a real question here, it is for an acceptable replacement for "evince". I forget what I used to use, but it deprecated itself several years ago, and evince was suggested as a pdf viewer. Anyone have a replacement suggestion?
EDIT:
After a quick check, zathura and xournal seem "minimally connected", unlike gnome or kde stuff. I've loaded both for play, and removed evince. Things are looking cleaner now.


atril is the evince successor in mate.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
I wouldn't call it "dead", but "complete". After all there's only so many ways to display a static image, prompt for a login, and run a specified command on success.


Good answer. So I guess then the question becomes how many bugs it has and how fast they're fixed. I couldn't find some kind of upstream bugzilla for the project and there seem to be only a few bugs in Gentoo's bugzilla.

As for the evince replacement... how silly would it be to suggest Firefox? I guess it depends on what you need of it. Most of my interactions with PDFs are when I click a link not paying enough attention and I hit a PDF which opens directly in Firefox. :lol:
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrueXYZ wrote:

As for the evince replacement... how silly would it be to suggest Firefox? I guess it depends on what you need of it. Most of my interactions with PDFs are when I click a link not paying enough attention and I hit a PDF which opens directly in Firefox. :lol:


I regularly have firefox render PDFs improperly across multiple platforms, particularly when printing them (for example, a bank statement that I want a hard copy of)
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