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kikoune
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2002 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hello

i just want to say here same thing from rojaro

i thing there are missing drivers on live cd : for example scsi adaptec 2940 or 39160 (modules aic7xxx), ethernet driver 3com 905c or intel ethernet

i need to install on two computer with these component and i had to use gentoo 1.2 boot cd which has these module but i prefer install gentoo from 1.4 live cd with X :)

so i hope that live cd will contain more drivers than the actual one
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mwahl
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2002 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tristam29 wrote:
There are a lot of people who like gentoo for a desktop system and not for a server as it's not 'stable'. Don't get me wrong, gentoo is a really fun distribution to use, but having all these links and discussion about ut2003 took a little chip out of the appearance of stability that gentoo was creating.


If remember well enough there was an interview with drobbins where he announced a Gentoo Server version. I think if we want people to use Gentoo as a production server system, the quality of the installation CDs or better the process of going to new releases should be fixed on a high level. And it should be fixed now, before the gentoo community is to huge and guidelines like this can't be introduced anymore.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2002 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lest we forget, these are beta CDs. 1.4 is still not an official release yet.
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Maldrim
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2002 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, honestly.. I installed 1.4 on a 3 year old laptop with no problems whatsoever... I simply used the Stage-3 tarball from the candidate and used the 1.2 boot CD.... The version number isn't really any important for the boot cd.. the package and bootstraps,emerge system are... so just get a working booting CD and install from that.. I mean.. it's a RC .. it's named tha tbecause it is NOT WOKRING YET....
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Locri
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 2:33 am    Post subject: Aren't we forgetting something here? Reply with quote

I see all this talk about what's wrong with this CD and I have to agree... I had downloaded it expecting that I would be able to install things, only to find that many of the modules I needed aren't available... honestly it kinda pissed me off. To my knowledge, "Release Canidate" means that it could be in releasable quality barring any major bugs that people on untested systems find. Missing everything needed to use PCMCIA network cards is hardly a bug... it's extrodinarily stupid (as much as I hate to say it). They should of just waited till they could get things a bit farther then that, as it certainly doesn't help to make something a "Release Canidate" if no one in their right mind would consider releasing it in that condition.

It would of been nicer if it had been called Alpha or something similar, but honestly I'm completely confused as to why it has taken this much time to get to a stage that isn't even close to complete or releasable. Remember the definitions of the words that you use! It's not that difficult...

Now I have to go back to waiting for the next release to come out which annoys me somewhat... here I was hoping to have a nice Gentoo system compiled in a few days... but it didn't work.

*Sigh*

-Locri
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Curious
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 2:53 am    Post subject: Re: Aren't we forgetting something here? Reply with quote

Locri wrote:
honestly I'm completely confused as to why it has taken this much time to get to a stage that isn't even close to complete or releasable.


Yeah! What are we paying them all this money for!

Hang on... :roll:

-- Curious
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Locri
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yeah! What are we paying them all this money for!


Heh, good one. My point was that it is surprising that it is taking the developers a long time to get all that stuff together. Honestly I could care less if they took another 2 or 3 months (or longer, it's up to them) but when they release something as a "Release Canidate" when it is no where near that since there are huge gaps in what is actually on the CD...

I guess you could reduce my complaint down to "you should be more careful what you label your builds"

^^

-Locri
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pjp
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not read of 'huge gaps'. The lack of a few NICs (or alot) is probably a very minor issue. Procedural issues are probably also minor. What I have noticed, is very few people posting that they have filed a bug report on their 1.4 related problems. Yes, some have.
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rac
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:33 am    Post subject: Re: Aren't we forgetting something here? Reply with quote

Locri wrote:
Now I have to go back to waiting for the next release to come out which annoys me somewhat... here I was hoping to have a nice Gentoo system compiled in a few days... but it didn't work.

You do realize that you have several other options than waiting for the next release and becoming annoyed, among which are:
  • Using a 1.2 CD and a 1.4 stage tarball
  • Installing in a chroot from another running Linux distro with networking set up

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mlybarger
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kanuslupus wrote:
Things beta frequently break.


they sure do, but beta normally comes before an RC. i myself used the 1.4rc cd, and had no problems. i'm getting use to the gentoo systems, and like the ease of upgrading applications (never tried upgrading the base gcc though yet). it's a little intimidating for users to go and file bugs away, maybe if there were more support for them to do so.
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klieber
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark_lybarger wrote:
it's a little intimidating for users to go and file bugs away, maybe if there were more support for them to do so.

Can you elaborate on this statement a little? I agree the interface to bugzilla is somewhat complex, but I wouldn't necessarily call it intimidating.

Did you mean something else?

--kurt
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Locri
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Aren't we forgetting something here? Reply with quote

rac wrote:
Locri wrote:
Now I have to go back to waiting for the next release to come out which annoys me somewhat... here I was hoping to have a nice Gentoo system compiled in a few days... but it didn't work.

You do realize that you have several other options than waiting for the next release and becoming annoyed, among which are:
  • Using a 1.2 CD and a 1.4 stage tarball
  • Installing in a chroot from another running Linux distro with networking set up


Yeah, I'm trying the first one there and seeing if it works... but unfortunately for some reason the card drivers aren't working on that CD too (already posted on Hardware and Laptops, hopefully there is a response there).

I think the difficult part with the chroot is that I specifically wanted a minimalist install since my computer is just a slow/small laptop (more info in the post I made on Hardware and Laptops) and I'm not sure how to easily clean away all the junk from the installation of the previous Linux distro if I were to do a chroot install. Any guides on how to clean up afterwards?

Quote:
The lack of a few NICs (or alot) is probably a very minor issue.


Yes, lack of a few NICs is a minor issue. Lack of the entire PCMCIA loading modules is hardly that though, wouldn't you say?

Cheers,
-Locri
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pjp
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark_lybarger wrote:
they sure do, but beta normally comes before an RC.
You are correct. RCs also have problems. I have read many reviews of OS RCs, written by respectable journalists, that have mentioned the problems experienced were expected to be resolved in the final version.

Locri wrote:
Yes, lack of a few NICs is a minor issue. Lack of the entire PCMCIA loading modules is hardly that though, wouldn't you say?
I would consider any omission/error/bug/whatever that would be easy to fix prior to the final release, a minor issue. Not being a developer, I'm guessing the addtion of PCMCIA loading modules will not be difficult. Answering your question, I would say it is not only minor, but trivial. I'm sure people needing PCMCIA support think it is critical. If the developers are having problems integrating PCMCIA loading modules, then that is a different issue.

I would consider major the inability to resolve a major bug with gcc (or something similar).
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mlybarger
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

klieber wrote:

Can you elaborate on this statement a little? I agree the interface to bugzilla is somewhat complex, but I wouldn't necessarily call it intimidating.

Did you mean something else?

--kurt

perhaps :), i don't know. i know the bugzilla search interface is extremely overwhelming in and of itself. searching for an existant bug isn't as easy as searching for a thread on the forum that you have a question on. i think filing bugs takes very high level familiarity with the overall product. in the business applications i've supported, the users don't directly enter bugs, they go through another interface to report issues, either their manager, or a business analyst.

to conclude, i think it is very helpfull if someone reports something on the mail list or the forums if they're encouraged a LOT to file the bug.

i agree with other posts that RC recleases do have issues.
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rac
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Aren't we forgetting something here? Reply with quote

Locri wrote:
I'm not sure how to easily clean away all the junk from the installation of the previous Linux distro if I were to do a chroot install. Any guides on how to clean up afterwards?

How about a "Drawing Hands" (Escher) or "Pac-Man" (Hi D'Artagnan) install:
  • Make hda1 and hda2
  • Install bootstrap distro on hda1
  • Install Gentoo inside chroot onto hda2
  • Boot with hda2 /, make sure Gentoo works
  • Vape hda1, copy everything from hda2/usr to it
  • Delete everything in hda2/usr
  • Mount hda1 as /usr in Gentoo
You could do the same with /var, and/or symlink /var to /usr/var - whatever works to get your partition balance right for you. I haven't actually done it with Gentoo (I have with Debian), but I think rm'ing everything under either /usr or /var is safe if your next move is to mount something containing those partitions under it. Rebooting soon is also a good idea when shifting /var around because of things in /var/run.

Might this work?
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Locri
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Aren't we forgetting something here? Reply with quote

rac wrote:

How about a "Drawing Hands" (Escher) or "Pac-Man" (Hi D'Artagnan) install:
  • Make hda1 and hda2
  • Install bootstrap distro on hda1
  • Install Gentoo inside chroot onto hda2
  • Boot with hda2 /, make sure Gentoo works
  • Vape hda1, copy everything from hda2/usr to it
  • Delete everything in hda2/usr
  • Mount hda1 as /usr in Gentoo
You could do the same with /var, and/or symlink /var to /usr/var - whatever works to get your partition balance right for you. I haven't actually done it with Gentoo (I have with Debian), but I think rm'ing everything under either /usr or /var is safe if your next move is to mount something containing those partitions under it. Rebooting soon is also a good idea when shifting /var around because of things in /var/run.

Might this work?


I'll see if I can do something like this, but I'm not too experienced at installing Linux from scratch. My initial impression of Gentoo was certainly not that of an easy install, but to some extent I was hoping it would go much more smoothly then it has so far (which is absolutely nowhere, mind you 1.4 is very much beta, so I guess this is ok.. I'm learning a lot!). I think I'll try to see if I can pull something off with Knoppix in order to get this working, I feel I might have better luck since I know the net drivers are detected there. However I'm still afraid that when I switch over into Gentoo on the net boot, that the support will be lost.

I might be better off moving my part of this conversation to the newbie forum or the install forum...

-Locri
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