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klieber
Bodhisattva
Joined: 17 Apr 2002
Posts: 3657
Location: San Francisco, CA
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 Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 5:55 pm Post subject: Emacs: for all your chess playing and web serving needs |
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OK, I've never used emacs before in my life. Because I'm not familiar with it, I try not to bash it. Then, I saw the following post on the gentoo-user mailing list:
| Matthew Kennedy wrote: | Hello fellow Emacs users,
Another snapshot of app-emacs/ is available at
http://www.gentoo.org/~mkennedy/emacs-packages.html
The new archive also includes a complete distfiles (which I forgot to
include on previous releases)
New ebuilds added since last time (since 28 September 2000):
* app-emacs/binclock
* app-emacs/boxquote
* app-emacs/bubblet
* app-emacs/cdrw
* app-emacs/chess
* app-emacs/color-theme
* app-emacs/crypt++
* app-emacs/dircolors
* app-emacs/emacs-wiki
* app-emacs/erobot
* app-emacs/httpd
* app-emacs/ibuffer
* app-emacs/igrep
* app-emacs/table
* app-emacs/typing
* app-emacs/u-vm-color
* app-emacs/uptimes
* app-emacs/view-process
* app-emacs/weather
This means basically everything in the Emacs Elisp Archive at Ohio
State is has been packaged for Gentoo now.
Emacs elisp ebuild requests, feedback, patches etc. all welcome! |
WTF!?!?! Am I reading that message correctly in that there is a web server for emacs? Never mind the chess program, weather program, kitchen sink, etc. A web server???
I did a little googling and found this page which seems to corroberate the message above.
You emacs users are a bunch of wack-jobs.  *
--kurt
*(NOTE to the humor impaired: What you have just read was a playful jab, not an insult. It was intended to convey humor and levity. If you took it some other way, you should re-read the message again with this in mind before pulling out your blowtorches...)
--kurt
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rac
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 May 2002
Posts: 6553
Location: Japanifornia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, how dare you impugn the good name of...wait a minute...somebody spilled strawberry jam on the screen...wipe wipe...no, it's teensy red text...wot's this?...oh never mind.
The core of Emacs is written in C, and this includes an interpreter (bytecode and otherwise) for a LISPy language called elisp. Most of the crazy stuff (the Eliza mode, probably the httpd, the Zippy quotes, &c) are written in elisp. Since there's a whole programming environment in there, it's easy to create extension packages. They're not all included by default. In fact, before I switched to Gentoo, I didn't know how (relatively) slim the bare-bones xemacs build was. I mean, there's no *dired*, for deity's sake. What am I supposed to do, remember file names?
Fortunately, there's a nice UI that downloads and installs packages you want, and it's documented well (if a bit hidden) in the Portage tree.
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 20067
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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*steps back and puts on a flame-suit*
At the risk of juggling fire, at what point does this become bloat? I've only used emacs for about 2 minutes before I decided I didn't like the interface on whatever I was using at the time (I'm assuming the interface is customizeable -- everything else is  ).
Note that this is a serious question. Is emacs really that useful as to eliminate the need for other utilities?
I may have to emerge it.
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digicosm
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 23 Sep 2002
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| kanuslupus wrote: | At the risk of juggling fire, at what point does this become bloat? I've only used emacs for about 2 minutes before I decided I didn't like the interface on whatever I was using at the time (I'm assuming the interface is customizeable -- everything else is ).
Note that this is a serious question. Is emacs really that useful as to eliminate the need for other utilities?
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There's no bloat because it tends to load only what you need. If you don't need Eliza to psychoanalyze Zippy, so be it, it won't be loaded.
Having said that, my problem with Emacs is enforcing a common look-and-feel on the entire system. As a result, that tends to dilute the individual applications to such a point that (a) their functionality becomes severely limited, or (b) their user interfaces need to be unique and thus you lose the advantage of having everything in one platform.
One good example is email support. Emacs offers RMAIL, VM amongst others. RMAIL is nicely integrated into the editor, but it doesn't offer MIME support, making it relatively useless for business work. VM does support MIME, but it pops up a new window and has an entirely unique user interface, forcing you to learn it. To me this defeats the purpose of having a common platform to build on.
I guess I just prefer having small utilities that are really good at what they do. However, Emacs is certainly an impressive accomplishment and deserves praise for what it has accomplished, even though it's not usable <running> |
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pjp
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Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 20067
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting. Has anyone found emacsOS yet?
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rac
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 May 2002
Posts: 6553
Location: Japanifornia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| kanuslupus wrote: | | Interesting. Has anyone found emacsOS yet? |
I don't know if you knew this, but "the operating system known as Emacs" is an old joke. It predates the notion of "desktop environments", and I think that updated to use that terminology, it's not far off.
I could do pretty much everything I do daily on a computer from within Emacs: write things, compile programs, send and receive mail (encrypted and in multiple human languages), read Usenet, read WWW pages, write HTML, spawn shells, do sysadmin stuff, traverse filesystems. I'm not sure if there's a way to play audio CDs from within Emacs, but I suppose there's a command-line utility that could be called from a shell window.
Of course, I don't prefer to do all of these things from within Emacs, but you could. Note to anyone considering learning Emacs: if you have learned default GNU readline keybindings by osmosis using bash, you already know a lot of the Emacs positioning and movement keys.
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 20067
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| rac wrote: | | I don't know if you knew this, but "the operating system known as Emacs" is an old joke. |
Hehe, no, I didn't know that, but it doesn't sound like there would need to be too many additions to accomplish it.
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spectatorion
n00b
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "the operating system known as Emacs" |
in fact, it is common wisdom that emacs would be a great operating system. now if only it had a good editor... |
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fca
Guru
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 346
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| spectatorion wrote: | | Quote: | | "the operating system known as Emacs" |
in fact, it is common wisdom that emacs would be a great operating system. now if only it had a good editor... |
Yeah! Maybe they could join up with the VI team, and integrate VI?
Silently sneaks away from the fire, whistling.... |
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aja
l33t
Joined: 26 Aug 2002
Posts: 705
Location: Edmonton, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | Interesting. Has anyone found emacsOS yet? |
Yes - but we need to get Emacs self-hosting so we can lose the rest of that crap on the box.
And you CAN emulate VI keystrokes in emacs. You can also leave your car in first gear all the time. |
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TheCoop
Veteran
Joined: 15 Jun 2002
Posts: 1814
Location: Where you least expect it
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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i wonder how difficult it would be to write an os kernel for emacs...
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krusty_ar
Guru
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 560
Location: Rosario, Argentina
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| TheCoop wrote: | | i wonder how difficult it would be to write an os kernel for emacs... |
You don't need to:
| Code: | root:x:0:0:root:/root:/sbin/emacs
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FxChiP
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 12:56 am Post subject: |
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My main problem with emacs is it's so damned hard to use, and if you press one wrong button it's hard to escape. You have to use another TTY to kill it off.
But I'm just a beginning user who hasn't read the manual... and ugh...
... it's not exactly intuitive.  |
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Nylle
Guru
Joined: 05 May 2002
Posts: 308
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| FxChiP wrote: | My main problem with emacs is it's so damned hard to use, and if you press one wrong button it's hard to escape. You have to use another TTY to kill it off.
But I'm just a beginning user who hasn't read the manual... and ugh...
... it's not exactly intuitive. |
Pah, being intuitive is overrated! If emacs was intutive, then everybody could use it! Think about that horrible scenario for a while. That would take away the l33tness that comes with being an emacs user, and we can't have that, now can we?
Emacs is a bloated hog that gives me RSI, but what can I say, I love it! 
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MidnightCommando
n00b
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 19
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | Interesting. Has anyone found emacsOS yet? |
EmacsOS was made once.
It was done by replacing init with emacs on a Linux system.
Some whackjob with a PowerBook did it.
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MidnightCommando
n00b
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 19
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| Nylle wrote: |
Emacs is a bloated hog that gives me RSI, but what can I say, I love it! |
Try <a href="http://www.sxemacs.org/">SXEmacs</a>.
That'll show you the true meaning of kitchen sink.
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How many kernels must a geek compile, before he is called a geek?
The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind. |
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PingEnt
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 89
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| FxChiP wrote: | My main problem with emacs is it's so damned hard to use, and if you press one wrong button it's hard to escape. You have to use another TTY to kill it off.
But I'm just a beginning user who hasn't read the manual... and ugh...
... it's not exactly intuitive. |
Usually cleans up whatever mess you've made with the keys :p[/code]
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spupy
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 102
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | rac wrote: | | I don't know if you knew this, but "the operating system known as Emacs" is an old joke. |
Hehe, no, I didn't know that, but it doesn't sound like there would need to be too many additions to accomplish it. |
Emacs, is not an OS. It is a tiling window manager. Like Ion and WMII.
Now, excuse me, I have to go and put "exec emacs" in my xinitrc.
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jel
Apprentice
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 259
Location: Gothenburg
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| FxChiP wrote: | My main problem with emacs is it's so damned hard to use, and if you press one wrong button it's hard to escape. You have to use another TTY to kill it off.
But I'm just a beginning user who hasn't read the manual... and ugh...
... it's not exactly intuitive. |
The first combo you need to learn is C-g, ie. ctrl+g aka. keyboard-quit. It cancels just about everything you just started mistyping. If C-g doesn't cut it there's always C-], abort-recursive-edit, which breaks out of recursive edits. |
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rokstar83
Guru
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 423
Location: MD
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| jel wrote: | | FxChiP wrote: | My main problem with emacs is it's so damned hard to use, and if you press one wrong button it's hard to escape. You have to use another TTY to kill it off.
But I'm just a beginning user who hasn't read the manual... and ugh...
... it's not exactly intuitive. |
The first combo you need to learn is C-g, ie. ctrl+g aka. keyboard-quit. It cancels just about everything you just started mistyping. If C-g doesn't cut it there's always C-], abort-recursive-edit, which breaks out of recursive edits. |
I didn't know it was called "keyboard-quit"... I've always been calling it "the un-!%$@ emacs command". I usually just end up pounding on the g key until things look normal again. |
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