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kalisphoenix Apprentice
Joined: 28 Sep 2003 Posts: 211 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:48 am Post subject: |
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BSD would have at least some of my business if their SPARC installs worked reasonably... |
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sm0ke n00b
Joined: 12 Jan 2004 Posts: 4
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Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Why the argument? It would seem to me that FreeBSD and Gentoo have a great deal in common, and just from this discussion alone share a fair amount of the same space.
I have three boxes on my desktop. One Gentoo (my primary), one FreeBSD (backup with some necessary services running), and Mandrake (gaming box... soon to be gutted and rolled over into Gentoo).
I like the way they compliment. Course the firewall is running OpenBSD, but that's a different story.
The point you hear over and over is that you use the right tool for the job. Never mind that. Gentoo has a dynamic user community that is in some part shared with FreeBSD. This should be a good thing!
I'm not even going to suggest that one is better than the other, or that one plays a certain role better. I love em' both, and can't see either leaving my desktop anytime soon. |
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Rem Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 07 Nov 2002 Posts: 108 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Ironical that this topic that was started to keep gentoo-users using gentoo got me thinking about trying freebsd again
I like freebsd, as it seems faster and more robust, and as I like to learn from it too.
I tried it a while ago, but couldn't get the drivers for my nforce2 board right. I just checked bsdforums and freebsd.org to see how the situation is now.
Maybe I'll try it again in the near future, but it seems to much of a hassle right now, to get everything working.
I also think there are some good similarities between gentoo and freebsd. The *bsd community is also helpfull and friendly in my experience. |
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GentooBSD n00b
Joined: 28 Feb 2004 Posts: 9 Location: Somewhere in Time
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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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I went from a short beginning flirtation with Mandrake to installing OpenBSD as a Unix newbie (boy was that painful), then to FreeBSD, and now I'm using Gentoo as my desktop.
each system has different strengths.
Gentoo has
- probably has the friendliest and most newbie-friendly community.
- It's very easy to almost endlessly configure it.
- easiest to install high security distro (Trusted Gentoo)
- great hardware support
- easy to just compile prebrewed kernels with patches applied
- better configuration file layout than most Linux's
- Portage is awesome, a must have for most Linux systems.
- kernel 2.6 is supposed to be awesome, haven't tried it yet though.
- works as VMWare system....
FreeBSD is the user-friendliest of the BSD's and focused on reliability/performance...
- rock solid stable
- jail function rocks
- best/most sensible config files I have seen
- ports is still more stable than portage.
OpenBSD is security focused....
- pf is THE best open source firewall, period. Netfilter does not compare.
- OBSD ports are still pretty nice
- automatic ProPolice/W^X+noexec stack on the whole damn system.
- everything is audited for holes
- best documention of a Unix EVER!!!!! you really can understand everything by reading the man pages!
I don't really like Mandrake, so I won't say anything about it. |
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lightvhawk0 Guru
Joined: 07 Nov 2003 Posts: 388
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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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I've read so far that BSD is faster? Ok, I guess you could say that. Personally I haven't noticed a diffrence between the two. In some funky benchmarks this guy said that 2.6 was an extremely fast kernel compaired to BSD.
I use both BSD and Gentoo and I like Gentoo better because I'm lazy. IE as apposed to Code: | cd /usr/ports/editors/vim-lite <return> make install <return> make clean |
_________________ If God has made us in his image, we have returned him the favor. - Voltaire |
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ghuug Bodhisattva
Joined: 07 May 2003 Posts: 53 Location: West Africa
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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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I actually prefer FreeBSD to Linux.
* FreeBSD is a complete system (kernel/userspace), unlike Linux distributions (anyone can tell how many of them around these days?)
* FreeBSD has ipfw (yeah, human readable format, unlike netfilter with xillions of keys) AND dummynet, which is hell nice to control bandwidth logically
* Editing kernel config in FreeBSD is damn straightforward - I said "device ata" and that's it: I'm sure my IDE drive will work full speed (in Linux kernel, you need to select your controller, which could be problematic for dummie)
* FreeBSD's TCP/IP stack (like in all BSDs) is better than Linux's
* You can tune FreeBSD in more ways then you can tune Linux
Generally - FreeBSD lives on my servers; Linux stays on my desktop.
regards,
M. _________________ "Documentation is like sex:
when it is good, it is very, very good;
and when it is bad, it is better than nothing."
unregistered linux user #1 |
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Unleashed n00b
Joined: 07 Sep 2003 Posts: 7 Location: Barcelona
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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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GentooBSD wrote: |
each system has different strengths.
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Man, you said it all. I've had a very tough time trying to explain -let alone convince- people all those things you've listed in such a straightforward manner. Thanks. |
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Spawn of Lovechild Apprentice
Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Posts: 253 Location: Århus, Denmark
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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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Just a sad little sidenote, I upgraded my box to FreeBSD 5.2.1, and it seems the gcc they ship with it is a bit broken - I keep getting the dreaded "unable to create executables" message from ./configure.
But it's a fine system, and I can't wait for 5.3 or which ever version goes stable. _________________ Proud to be a 22 year old Infidel, GNOME lover and member of LIK. |
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mezz Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 01 Jun 2002 Posts: 111
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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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lightvhawk0 wrote: | I use both BSD and Gentoo and I like Gentoo better because I'm lazy. IE as apposed to Code: | cd /usr/ports/editors/vim-lite <return> make install <return> make clean |
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You can do few different ways:
pkg_add -r vim-lite
portinstall vim-lite (portinstall is from portupgrade.)
cd /usr/ports/editors/vim-lite ; make install clean (no need to do make install and make clean) |
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mezz Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 01 Jun 2002 Posts: 111
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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Spawn of Lovechild wrote: | Just a sad little sidenote, I upgraded my box to FreeBSD 5.2.1, and it seems the gcc they ship with it is a bit broken - I keep getting the dreaded "unable to create executables" message from ./configure.
But it's a fine system, and I can't wait for 5.3 or which ever version goes stable. |
No broke GCC here, GCC hasn't change since Nov.
# gcc --version
gcc (GCC) 3.3.3 [FreeBSD] 20031106 |
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Spawn of Lovechild Apprentice
Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Posts: 253 Location: Århus, Denmark
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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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mezz wrote: | Spawn of Lovechild wrote: | Just a sad little sidenote, I upgraded my box to FreeBSD 5.2.1, and it seems the gcc they ship with it is a bit broken - I keep getting the dreaded "unable to create executables" message from ./configure.
But it's a fine system, and I can't wait for 5.3 or which ever version goes stable. |
No broke GCC here, GCC hasn't change since Nov.
# gcc --version
gcc (GCC) 3.3.3 [FreeBSD] 20031106 |
Strange... maybe I have a broken port then... it's python btw.
Okay, I have another question - where do I set the default place to download stuff - fx. pkg_add seems to want to use ftp.freebsd.org which is down for me, and the ezm3 port has been broken for ages (so I need the package to make cvsup work). _________________ Proud to be a 22 year old Infidel, GNOME lover and member of LIK. |
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mezz Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 01 Jun 2002 Posts: 111
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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Spawn of Lovechild wrote: | mezz wrote: | Spawn of Lovechild wrote: | Just a sad little sidenote, I upgraded my box to FreeBSD 5.2.1, and it seems the gcc they ship with it is a bit broken - I keep getting the dreaded "unable to create executables" message from ./configure.
But it's a fine system, and I can't wait for 5.3 or which ever version goes stable. |
No broke GCC here, GCC hasn't change since Nov.
# gcc --version
gcc (GCC) 3.3.3 [FreeBSD] 20031106 |
Strange... maybe I have a broken port then... it's python btw. |
Did you tried update your ports tree and clean out all work directories (ie: portsclean -C, rm -rf /usr/ports/*/*/work or cd /usr/ports ; make clean)?
Spawn of Lovechild wrote: | Okay, I have another question - where do I set the default place to download stuff - fx. pkg_add seems to want to use ftp.freebsd.org which is down for me |
Have you read in the pkg_add(1), yet?
Code: | [...copied from pkg_add(1)...]
The environment variable PACKAGEROOT specifies an alternate location for
pkg_add to fetch from. The fetch URL is built using this environment
variable and the automatic directory logic that pkg_add uses when the -r
option is invoked. An example setting would be "ftp://ftp3.FreeBSD.org".
The environment variable PACKAGESITE specifies an alternate location for
pkg_add to fetch from. This variable subverts the automatic directory
logic that pkg_add uses when the -r option is invoked. Thus it should be
a complete URL to the remote package file(s). |
It's why I suggest to use -r flag above as 'pkg_add -r vim-lite'.
Spawn of Lovechild wrote: | the ezm3 port has been broken for ages (so I need the package to make cvsup work). |
Always broke on you? There's no broke in the bento, a cluster machine. I normal recommend people to install cvsup by 'pkg_add -r cvsup-without-gui', because it's painless and no useless of dependencies install like ezm3 and others. |
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uglyb0b Apprentice
Joined: 07 Sep 2003 Posts: 280
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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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I say it really depends on what you're used to. I've been using Gentoo for about 1 year now, and a few weeks ago I tried freeBSD and hated it. why? ports got borked at me, csh makes me irritated, and I like to say linux. Thats no reason not to use it, though. All you need is to get used to FreeBSD's way of doing things over Gentoo's. _________________ Blog.
Linux geek and Mac whore. |
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floam Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2002 Posts: 1067 Location: Vancouver, WA USA
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Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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..What is your problem? If they want to switch, who cares? It's not like Gentoo is in need of more users. _________________ Think about your breathing.
http://floam.sh.nu |
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kidacro n00b
Joined: 20 Feb 2004 Posts: 25 Location: Philly
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Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 2:43 pm Post subject: Gentoo/Freebsd |
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Being a long time FreeBsd user myself, and as its been said time and time b4, its a killer server and your best friend for stability in crisis situations. But when it comes to extreme desktop/gaming uses, gentoo simply owns... hats off to all who are a part of it.
Taking the time to build most of your os from sources pays off, in both cases, no doubt. I consider them neighbors... living in the house of gentoo and shagging my neighbors wife in the house of freebsd :p |
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Spawn of Lovechild Apprentice
Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Posts: 253 Location: Århus, Denmark
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Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Finally figured out the problem - it was caused by my freshly compiled kernel that broke gcc's ability to create executables.
FreeBSD 5.2.1 running smoothly here - yay. _________________ Proud to be a 22 year old Infidel, GNOME lover and member of LIK. |
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Dr Gonzo Apprentice
Joined: 31 Jan 2004 Posts: 276 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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They both rock.
I used the old (4. version of FreeBSD last summer, and I had a great time messing with it. However, I wanted some newer software, so I installed 5.1 and was unable to get networking up after install. It worked during, but not after.
I think I'm gonna nix Debian from my server and install FreeBSD. I bought this wonderful book (Absolute BSD) and am itching to crack it again.
Gaming will always keep Linux on my desktop, and I like Gentoo a lot. I'd actually prefer to use BSD if I could replace Linux, as I really like the BSD license. Plus, I like the little devil guy. What's his name again? |
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Thalion n00b
Joined: 20 Sep 2003 Posts: 71 Location: not in the USA
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:32 am Post subject: Gentoo AND FreeBSD |
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I run both of them. My main box is dual boot, Win98 for games (when WineX will be able to run Raven Shield or Age of Wonders, tell me please), Gentoo for everything else. However, it's not directly connected to the internet. Rather, it's behind a NAT provided by an old P133 which I bought for like $50, running FreeBSD 5.2. The thing serves as my firewall, and also runs an FTP server. No monitor, keyboard or anything, just a box =) Oh, and of course SSH for administration.
Interesting enough is that there is not enough space on its harddrive for my distfiles, so it mounts them into /var/ftp/pub from my computer via NFS. Yes, I know I am a pervert =)
What I like about Gentoo is that its /etc is somewhat cleaner. And of course Portage is great, although I miss binary packages sometimes. What is good about FreeBSD is its handbook - it's pretty much everything you need to set up a server of any kind. Oh, and sysinstall can save you quite some time.
Overall, I'd say that Gentoo is the most BSD-like of all Linux distributions. |
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homeobocks Guru
Joined: 19 Dec 2003 Posts: 345 Location: I'm from Canada, and they say I'm a little slow . . . eh?
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:53 am Post subject: |
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*BSD is dying. Excuse me while I make a "Soviet Russia" joke and put on my tin-foil hat.
If anyone doesn't get that, go to /. more often. _________________ HOW DO I SHOT WEB |
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Brother Dysk Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 29 Sep 2003 Posts: 131 Location: Hong Kong SAR PRC
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:34 am Post subject: |
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docGonzo2000 wrote: | I like the little devil guy. What's his name again? |
From the FreeBSD FAQ:
Quote: | 16.9. What is the cute little red guy's name?
He does not have one, and is just called ``the BSD daemon''. If you insist upon using a name, call him ``beastie''. Note that ``beastie'' is pronounced ``BSD''. |
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Dr Gonzo Apprentice
Joined: 31 Jan 2004 Posts: 276 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I just installed FreeBSD 5.2.1, and am having major problems getting it working correctly. Actually, that's not entirely true -- it's up and running as my web server, but there's nothing else I can seem to do with it. My kernel compile fails, half the packages I try to install from the net fail, and a couple of ports that I've tried to install are broken. Plus, there are some little annoyances -- like, I can't mount the cdrom as a regular user.
FreeBSD will stay on that machine as a server, but I'm not even sure how to do security updates. How can I upgrade binary packages with dependency checking? Is there a way? If I have to compile everything from source on my BSD box, it'll be 2010 before I'm done.
Oh well... May possibly end up going back to Debian on that box anyhow. However, I wanna like BSD... Any ideas so as to not be pissed off? |
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pandaxiongmao Guru
Joined: 29 Sep 2003 Posts: 478 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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docGonzo2000 wrote: | ...I can't mount the cdrom as a regular user... |
Same case here, and the "sudo" command also didn't work. _________________ CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo
GPU: nVidia GeForce 9800 GT
MB: Asus P5N-E SLI |
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downed Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 04 Mar 2004 Posts: 115 Location: Staten Island, NY
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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docGonzo2000 wrote: | Well, I just installed FreeBSD 5.2.1, and am having major problems getting it working correctly. Actually, that's not entirely true -- it's up and running as my web server, but there's nothing else I can seem to do with it. My kernel compile fails, half the packages I try to install from the net fail, and a couple of ports that I've tried to install are broken. Plus, there are some little annoyances -- like, I can't mount the cdrom as a regular user.
FreeBSD will stay on that machine as a server, but I'm not even sure how to do security updates. How can I upgrade binary packages with dependency checking? Is there a way? If I have to compile everything from source on my BSD box, it'll be 2010 before I'm done.
Oh well... May possibly end up going back to Debian on that box anyhow. However, I wanna like BSD... Any ideas so as to not be pissed off? |
As far as keeping the base up to date install cvsup from ports to keep your ports up to date install the portupgrade package from ports
net/cvsup
sysutils/portupgrade
after you cvsup check the /usr/src/UPDATING it gives detailed instructions and as far as mounting the cdrom make sure you have correct permissions and are in the right group and edit your sudoers file if you haven't done so hope this helps |
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Dr Gonzo Apprentice
Joined: 31 Jan 2004 Posts: 276 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I cvsup'd my ports tree, did 'portupgrade -Af', and I'm still having major problems after 2 friggin' days of compilation. I'm going to try one more reinstall, but it's sure not looking good.
It just seems that the BSD group is just not very interested in user friendliness. I could be wrong, but that's my perception. I guess it'll work as a server, but I'm a little worried about the lack of security update possibilities, since I can't seem to get portupgrade to work properly. |
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downed Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 04 Mar 2004 Posts: 115 Location: Staten Island, NY
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Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 3:29 am Post subject: |
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docGonzo2000 wrote: | Well, I cvsup'd my ports tree, did 'portupgrade -Af', and I'm still having major problems after 2 friggin' days of compilation. I'm going to try one more reinstall, but it's sure not looking good.
It just seems that the BSD group is just not very interested in user friendliness. I could be wrong, but that's my perception. I guess it'll work as a server, but I'm a little worried about the lack of security update possibilities, since I can't seem to get portupgrade to work properly. |
hrm I can't say I've had these problems while working with freebsd everything seems to work fine for me although i use portupgrade -a or portupgrade '*' But you are right the BSD group isn't very interested in user friendliness they concentrate on performance and stability. Don't give up though one thing that seperates any *nix user from a windows [l]user is the ability to solve a problem ;] oh btw don't know if you know this or not but portupgrade does not update your base system you need to cvsup with RELENG_5_2 tag and then do a make world and rebuild kernel its quite easy though once you figure everything out |
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