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flysideways Guru
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 3:41 am Post subject: Pi 5 Thoughts |
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I'm curious how others are using Pi 5's.
For my Gentoo Pi 5, I have ended up with the stock active cooler and a Pimoroni NVMe Base with a Samsung drive.
I cannot put the exact year on it, but, it out performs a lot of my first Gentoo hardware. I did use a lot of varied stuff. The 330mhz Pentium 2 was fun, took days to emerge stuff. The "Year of the Linux Desktop" is upon us.
Anyhow, the Pi guys have done a good thing here. If only it could be passively cooled and still emerge the big stuff. |
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axl Veteran
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:54 am Post subject: |
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I can't complain. I switched to a cluster of PIs & an apple mini a while back, where most of the hard compilations are done on the mini. But upgrading to PI5 almost makes the mini pointless now. Even Gnome & Chromium are decent while using. |
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szatox Advocate
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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It got quite expensive.
RPi was meant to be a 35$ computer for children and tinkerers, right? And yet it kinda feels like this very niche of cheap yet versatile and easy to use (though low spec) computers got abandoned. Not that there's anything wrong with making high-spec ARM-boards, it just wasn't the original idea behind rpi and it's not the idea which made rpi so popular, so I think it's going against it's mission and its brand.
Even RPi4 got a bit pricey over time, e.g. an on-board wifi is surely nice to have, but without an external antenna it doesn't work very well inside a full-metal fanless radiator case, so I'd rather not have it at all than pay 5$ premium. Too bad, nobody sells this version even though it is listed as an available option. _________________ Make Computing Fun Again |
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flysideways Guru
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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There are presently multiple US retailers showing $35.00 1GB Pi 3B's and 4's in stock for purchase. They still meet the original goal.
Pi Zero W's with pre-soldered headers look to be $15.99 in stock too. The Zero 2 W is still $14.99.
I don't see any of the $10.00 Pi Zeros in stock, but I have used them hooked up to a monitor, keyboard, and mouse. If you want internet, use a usb dongle that also has an ethernet port.
I'm not sure how the Pi Zero 2 W compares to a late '70's VAX, but it runs gcc just fine. |
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flysideways Guru
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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On the subject of Pi Zero, why not?
Code: | me@zero:~/fortran $ gfortran hello.f90 -o hello
me@zero:~/fortran $ ./hello
HELLO WORLD
me@zero:~/fortran $ neofetch
`.::///+:/-. --///+//-:`` me@zero
`+oooooooooooo: `+oooooooooooo: -------
/oooo++//ooooo: ooooo+//+ooooo. OS: Raspbian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye) armv6l
`+ooooooo:-:oo- +o+::/ooooooo: Host: Raspberry Pi Zero Rev 1.3
`:oooooooo+`` `.oooooooo+- Kernel: 6.1.21+
`:++ooo/. :+ooo+/.` Uptime: 20 mins
...` `.----.` ``.. Packages: 1430 (dpkg)
.::::-``:::::::::.`-:::-` Shell: bash 5.1.4
-:::-` .:::::::-` `-:::- Resolution: 1920x1080
`::. `.--.` `` `.---.``.::` Terminal: /dev/pts/2
.::::::::` -::::::::` ` CPU: BCM2835 (1) @ 1.000GHz
.::` .:::::::::- `::::::::::``::. Memory: 101MiB / 429MiB
-:::` ::::::::::. ::::::::::.`:::-
:::: -::::::::. `-:::::::: ::::
-::- .-:::-.``....``.-::-. -::-
.. `` .::::::::. `..`..
-:::-` -::::::::::` .:::::`
:::::::` -::::::::::` :::::::.
.::::::: -::::::::. ::::::::
`-:::::` ..--.` ::::::.
`...` `...--..` `...`
.::::::::::
`.-::::-`
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Posted from a Gentoo Pi 5, I don't have a browser on that Zero. |
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e8root n00b
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Code: | -/oyddmdhs+:. root@pigentoo
-odNMMMMMMMMNNmhy+-` -------------
-yNMMMMMMMMMMMNNNmmdhy+- OS: Gentoo Linux aarch64
`omMMMMMMMMMMMMNmdmmmmddhhy/` Host: Raspberry Pi 5 Model B Rev 1.0
omMMMMMMMMMMMNhhyyyohmdddhhhdo` Kernel: 6.6.22-v8-16k+
.ydMMMMMMMMMMdhs++so/smdddhhhhdm+` Uptime: 37 mins
oyhdmNMMMMMMMNdyooydmddddhhhhyhNd. Packages: 503 (emerge)
:oyhhdNNMMMMMMMNNNmmdddhhhhhyymMh Shell: bash 5.1.16
.:+sydNMMMMMNNNmmmdddhhhhhhmMmy Terminal: /dev/pts/1
/mMMMMMMNNNmmmdddhhhhhmMNhs: CPU: ARM Cortex-A76 (4) @ 2.400GHz
`oNMMMMMMMNNNmmmddddhhdmMNhs+` Memory: 220MiB / 8048MiB
`sNMMMMMMMMNNNmmmdddddmNMmhs/.
/NMMMMMMMMNNNNmmmdddmNMNdso:`
+MMMMMMMNNNNNmmmmdmNMNdso/-
yMMNNNNNNNmmmmmNNMmhs+/-`
/hMMNNNNNNNNMNdhs++/-`
`/ohdmmddhys+++/:.`
`-//////:--. |
It definitely emerges stuff slower than Core i5 13600KF@5.4/4.3GHz
That said Pi5 CPU is actually quite capable at performance levels apparently similar to Core i5 760 and even reaching i5 2500 in some (heavy SIMD) workloads.
GPU is absolute trash though and drivers do not even deserve to call them trash... and it is my biggest gripe... other than it doesn't matter as much given it is supposed to be 24/7 server of sorts just as Pi4 was before it. In X11 for as long as one does not expect miracles it is possible to comfortably work at 3840x2160@60Hz and play videos fairly well (with some tearing of course...) at 1080p - so not full screen. Games etc I would not recommend. Wayland last time I checked could not be called as "supported" given VC4 driver doesn't support any form of GPU scheduling which causes compositing to must wait for the so called "3d block" to finish doing its current operation which results in whole desktop along with mouse cursor to run at the same framerate as said applications which means it gets single frame rate digits quite fast at 4K and even 1080p I would not say is usable.
Anyways, anyone willing to take Raspberry Pi 5 experience to the 11 forget fancy promises that dhcp will work after finishing initial out-of-pi part of this https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi_Install_Guide tutorial and prepare script (of course with proper setting for your router):
Code: | ip address flush dev eth0
ip route flush dev eth0
ip address add 192.168.1.2/24 brd + dev eth0
ip route add 192.168.1.1 dev eth0
ip route add default via 192.168.1.1 dev eth0
ip address show dev eth0 |
to save yourself frustration and trying to find solution amongst "hello, I have network issue" posts with satisfying resolution such as "I managed to make network works, bye"
Regarding Pi5 - other than poor GPU drivers quality the biggest issue (other than it not being cheap computer we would wish it to be) is my current case with it quite noisy fan. Today I ordered all-aluminum case without any fans and its the same as I had for Pi4 and there is barely managed to keep overclocked Pi4 below throttling so I do not expect miracles like being able to hit 2.9GHz all passive emerging world. Though actually emerging world is mostly stuck "checking if compiler has feature XYZ" for most packages and even for bigger packages they don't utilize 100% of the CPU so it might just work out fine.
For now since I just installed Gentoo the first order of business is building kernel with zram support (because for whatever reason I do not have zram module...) and then emerging world with emptytree to take in CFLAGS so that I don't need to rebuild it later. It is actually great I waited few more days with Pi5 install because if I had to reemerge everything again with new 23.0 profile after emerging it with 17.1 I'd get quite pissed. _________________ Unix Wars - Episode V: AT&T Strikes Back |
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NeddySeagoon Administrator
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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e8root
Which stage3 did you use following https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi_Install_Guide ?
Wayland does not use the VC4 driver on the Pi5. Its all V3D.
My testing with any console or graphics output has been cut short as the video output on my Pi5 has failed. ssh still works though.
I can probably get a serial console going too, if I was pushed, or broke ssh.
My passive cooling solution consists of the PI5 armour case with an original Pentium passive cooler fitted together fins to fins. The technical term is 'graunched' [1]
I get 62C with all 4 cores working hard at stock 2.4GHz. The armour case alone allows the PI to reach thermal throttling.
I'll add a photo to the wiki later.
[1] R.A.F. slang: namely, 'to graunch,' which means 'to make to fit by the use of excessive force.' " _________________ Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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e8root n00b
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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It was exactly stage3-arm64-desktop-systemd-20240324T235307Z.tar.xz
VC4 vs V3D... yeah, I just meant GPU driver in general. The way I understand it there is one part in the kernel and one in mesa and to be honest I don't remember which is which. Or was it mesa and X11? Probably.
Cooling wise I got this case https://botland.com.pl/img/art/inne/24106_2.jpg today. It has connection with thermal pads to each of the chips, even those two small ones. I have almost the same case for Pi4 and it was always pretty solid, pun intended. I usually keep it on big copper plate and did the same for Pi5.
So far at default parameters with performance governor it runs quite okay while emerging world + making kernel at the same time with temperature after a while hovering at 66'C. Imho not bad at all. Putting more copper plates on top of the case helped bringing temperature well below 60'C.
Initial world emptytree emerge (to get -march=native packages) does take its sweet time. It didn't help I initially started it on some cheap'o microSD card which literally would cause system to get stuck waiting for io for most of the time. I ordered USB3 SATA3 adapter but it won't arrive today so I used USB2 adapter... maybe it isn't the fastest tech out there but emerge actually runs fine and I was easily able to build kernel while emerge was working on its stuff.
Biggest test will be emerging chromium... only after configuring plenty zram swap.
Quickly checked emerge --getbinpkg --ask www-client/chromium and apparently there are some binary packages for aarch64. Chromium itself shows as ebuild though... it would be imho much more useful to have chromium itself as binary package. Especially since on weaker hardware like Rapsberry Pi 3 I don't think it would be possible to build such packages without using cross compilation of sorts. _________________ Unix Wars - Episode V: AT&T Strikes Back |
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e8root n00b
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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Played with Gentoo on Pi5 the last two days and my impressions:
1. Simple package x11-wm/fvwm
It could not be installed because it was masked by: missing keyword
What could this magic keyword be?
...
Nailed it the first time without needing to use hacks like ** or attention
2. Mesa with llvm USE flag needs llvm_targets_AMDGPU
Perhaps a bit premature requirement but I just like Jeff definitely like the thought of having AMDGPU on Pi5
This from funny bugs so far. Nothing really major or out of ordinary.
Build times for small packages are ok but for anything bigger it is waiting game, mostly nocturnal. I at this time I would definitely use --getbinpkg option for Firefox or Chromium before emerging them properly. Unfortunately neither is available as binary packages. Clang is and it takes lots of time to emerge with just 4 cores at 2.4GHz so still would be a time save but then again given I will need to build bloody Firefox I decided to just ignore binary packages altogether and build everything from sources. _________________ Unix Wars - Episode V: AT&T Strikes Back |
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