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n00b
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Joined: 19 Dec 2019
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:16 pm    Post subject: No WiFi and interface name change after update Reply with quote

I'd had my wifi working without any issues for over a year but after an update and a reboot, my laptop wifi stopped working. Prior my wifi interface was named wlp2s0, now it's wlan0. I'm not running dhcpd or wpa_supplicant. I only use nmcli.

make.conf: http://sprunge.us/Zvc0na

ifconfig -a: http://sprunge.us/omsqHC[/code]

uname -a:
Code:
Linux asus-g14 5.19.1-gentoo-x86_64 #2 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Mon Aug 15 00:35:03 EDT 2022 x86_64 AMD Ryzen 9 4900HS with Radeon Graphics AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux


dmesg | grep -i -E 'xx:xx.x|wlan|iwl|80211':

Code:
[    0.867443] cfg80211: Loading compiled-in X.509 certificates for regulatory database
[    0.868458] cfg80211: Loaded X.509 cert 'sforshee: 00b28ddf47aef9cea7'
[    0.868526] cfg80211: failed to load regulatory.db
[   16.009152] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: enabling device (0000 -> 0002)
[   16.121015] Loading firmware: iwlwifi-cc-a0-72.ucode
[   16.122972] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: Direct firmware load for iwlwifi-cc-a0-72.ucode failed with error -2
[   16.122991] Loading firmware: iwlwifi-cc-a0-71.ucode
[   16.126390] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: api flags index 2 larger than supported by driver
[   16.126428] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: TLV_FW_FSEQ_VERSION: FSEQ Version: 89.3.35.37
[   16.127564] Loading firmware: iwl-debug-yoyo.bin
[   16.127634] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: loaded firmware version 71.058653f6.0 cc-a0-71.ucode op_mode iwlmvm
[   16.765437] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: Detected Intel(R) Wi-Fi 6 AX200 160MHz, REV=0x340
[   16.893287] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: Detected RF HR B3, rfid=0x10a100
[   16.959330] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: base HW address: c8:e2:65:08:85:b8
[ 1016.072690] Loading firmware: iwlwifi-cc-a0-72.ucode
[ 1016.072737] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: Direct firmware load for iwlwifi-cc-a0-72.ucode failed with error -2
[ 1016.072749] Loading firmware: iwlwifi-cc-a0-71.ucode
[ 1016.073414] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: api flags index 2 larger than supported by driver
[ 1016.073442] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: TLV_FW_FSEQ_VERSION: FSEQ Version: 89.3.35.37
[ 1016.073837] Loading firmware: iwl-debug-yoyo.bin
[ 1016.073854] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: loaded firmware version 71.058653f6.0 cc-a0-71.ucode op_mode iwlmvm
[ 1016.080024] iwlmvm: unknown parameter 'iwlwifi' ignored
[ 1016.080514] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: Detected Intel(R) Wi-Fi 6 AX200 160MHz, REV=0x340
[ 1016.201964] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: Detected RF HR B3, rfid=0x10a100
[ 1016.267687] iwlwifi 0000:02:00.0: base HW address: c8:e2:65:08:85:b8


doas lspci -nnkv | sed -n '/Network/,/^$/p':
Code:
02:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Intel Corporation Wi-Fi 6 AX200 [8086:2723] (rev 1a)
        Subsystem: Intel Corporation Wi-Fi 6 AX200NGW [8086:0084]
        Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 79, IOMMU group 9
        Memory at fc800000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K]
        Capabilities: [c8] Power Management version 3
        Capabilities: [d0] MSI: Enable- Count=1/1 Maskable- 64bit+
        Capabilities: [40] Express Endpoint, MSI 00
        Capabilities: [80] MSI-X: Enable+ Count=16 Masked-
        Capabilities: [100] Advanced Error Reporting
        Capabilities: [14c] Latency Tolerance Reporting
        Capabilities: [154] L1 PM Substates
        Kernel driver in use: iwlwifi
        Kernel modules: iwlwifi


rfkill list:
Code:
0: hci0: Bluetooth
        Soft blocked: yes
        Hard blocked: no
2: phy1: Wireless LAN
        Soft blocked: no
        Hard blocked: no


NetworkManager emerge:
Code:
[ebuild   R    ] net-misc/networkmanager-1.38.4::gentoo  USE="(audit) bluetooth concheck elogind gtk-doc introspection iwd modemmanager nss policykit ppp resolvconf (selinux) tools wext wifi -connection-sharing -debug -dhclient -dhcpcd -gnutls -iptables -libedit -lto -nftables -ofono -ovs -psl -syslog -systemd -teamd -test -vala" ABI_X86="(64) -32 (-x32)" 0 KiB

Total: 1 package (1 reinstall), Size of downloads: 0 KiB
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alamahant
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont know why the rename happened.
It is usually a result of
net.ifnames=0
kernel parameter.
But you can try
Code:

nmcli con show
nmcli con mod <wifi-connection-from-above-command> ifname wlan0
nmcli con up <wifi-connection-from-above-command>

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alamahant wrote:
I dont know why the rename happened.
It is usually a result of
net.ifnames=0
kernel parameter.
But you can try
Code:

nmcli con show
nmcli con mod <wifi-connection-from-above-command> ifname wlan0
nmcli con up <wifi-connection-from-above-command>


I did that and get: Error: Connection activation failed: No suitable device found for this connection (device enp4s0f3u1u1 not available because profile is not compatible with device (mismatching interface name)).

ifconfig alone just shows:

Code:
enp4s0f3u1u1: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST>  mtu 1500
        inet 192.168.10.12  netmask 255.255.255.0  broadcast 192.168.10.255
        inet6 fe80::717e:3bd9:4517:9c06  prefixlen 64  scopeid 0x20<link>
        ether 00:0e:c6:ca:3c:39  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
        RX packets 244968  bytes 241028840 (229.8 MiB)
        RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
        TX packets 150766  bytes 21877263 (20.8 MiB)
        TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0

lo: flags=73<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING>  mtu 65536
        inet 127.0.0.1  netmask 255.0.0.0
        inet6 ::1  prefixlen 128  scopeid 0x10<host>
        loop  txqueuelen 1000  (Local Loopback)
        RX packets 164  bytes 18485 (18.0 KiB)
        RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
        TX packets 164  bytes 18485 (18.0 KiB)
        TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0


ifconfig -a shows:

Code:
dummy0: flags=130<BROADCAST,NOARP>  mtu 1500
        ether 36:3a:ec:e3:a0:c9  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
        RX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
        RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
        TX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
        TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0

enp4s0f3u1u1: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST>  mtu 1500
        inet 192.168.10.12  netmask 255.255.255.0  broadcast 192.168.10.255
        inet6 fe80::717e:3bd9:4517:9c06  prefixlen 64  scopeid 0x20<link>
        ether 00:0e:c6:ca:3c:39  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
        RX packets 246166  bytes 241565718 (230.3 MiB)
        RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
        TX packets 151938  bytes 22022232 (21.0 MiB)
        TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0

lo: flags=73<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING>  mtu 65536
        inet 127.0.0.1  netmask 255.0.0.0
        inet6 ::1  prefixlen 128  scopeid 0x10<host>
        loop  txqueuelen 1000  (Local Loopback)
        RX packets 164  bytes 18485 (18.0 KiB)
        RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
        TX packets 164  bytes 18485 (18.0 KiB)
        TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0

sit0: flags=128<NOARP>  mtu 1480
        sit  txqueuelen 1000  (IPv6-in-IPv4)
        RX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
        RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
        TX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
        TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0

wlan0: flags=4098<BROADCAST,MULTICAST>  mtu 1500
        ether c8:e2:65:08:85:b8  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
        RX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
        RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0
        TX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)
        TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0


It seems like wlan0 or previously wlp2s0 is not being recognized by nmcli despite the kernel modules being loaded as shown in the lspci
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alamahant wrote:
I dont know why the rename happened.
It is usually a result of
net.ifnames=0
kernel parameter.
But you can try
Code:

nmcli con show
nmcli con mod <wifi-connection-from-above-command> ifname wlan0
nmcli con up <wifi-connection-from-above-command>


/etc/default/grub hasn't been changed since I installed Gentoo and this issue only started a week ago, I have that setting commented out:
Code:
  29   | # Boot with network interface renaming disabled
  30   | # GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="net.ifnames=0"
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

I did that and get: Error: Connection activation failed: No suitable device found for this connection (device enp4s0f3u1u1 not available because profile is not compatible with device (mismatching interface name)).

You tried to edit the wrong connection.

enp4s0f3u1u1 is ethernet NOT wifi.
Plz post your
Code:

nmcli con show

Something really strange is going on :
You have wifi renamed to wlan0
BUT
ethernet retained its ugly long name.
Plz
Activate
net.ifnames=0
reboot and retry.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alamahant wrote:
Quote:

I did that and get: Error: Connection activation failed: No suitable device found for this connection (device enp4s0f3u1u1 not available because profile is not compatible with device (mismatching interface name)).

You tried to edit the wrong connection.

enp4s0f3u1u1 is ethernet NOT wifi.
Plz post your
Code:

nmcli con show

Something really strange is going on :
You have wifi renamed to wlan0
BUT
ethernet retained its ugly long name.
Plz
Activate
net.ifnames=0
reboot and retry.


nmcli output:
Code:
NAME                                  UUID                                  TYPE       DEVICE
Wired connection 1                    f8d189cc-4b6c-31d0-b0b9-cbcba89e64f2  ethernet   enp4s0f3u1u1
homewifi                              b234f20c-9edc-425a-99a7-5fc803c6f2fb  wifi       --
wg0                                   6a145759-dccb-4e8b-b220-5f0078d7effb  wireguard  --


command followed:
Code:
nmcli con mod homewifi ifname wlan0
nmcli con up homewifi


output:
Quote:
Error: Connection activation failed: No suitable device found for this connection (device enp4s0f3u1u1 not available because profile is not compatible with device (mismatching interface name)).


doas cat /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/homewifi.nmconnection

Code:
[connection]
id=homewifi
uuid=b234f20c-9edc-425a-99a7-5fc803c6f2fb
type=wifi
interface-name=wlan0
timestamp=1660376125

[wifi]
mode=infrastructure
ssid=homewifi
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok your wifi iface is not recognized.
Probably kernel or lfirmware related.
How did you create the wifi connection?
Via nmcli or GUI
Try
Code:

nmcli con del homewifi

and recreate a wifi connection.
Also try
Code:

rfkill list

and check if wifi is blocked.
Anything in dmesg wifi-related?
Also try
Code:

ip link set wlan0 up
iw dev wlan0 scan

is wlan0 functional?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alamahant wrote:
Ok your wifi iface is not recognized.
Probably kernel or lfirmware related.
How did you create the wifi connection?
Via nmcli or GUI
Try
Code:

nmcli con del homewifi

and recreate a wifi connection.
Also try
Code:

rfkill list

and check if wifi is blocked.
Anything in dmesg wifi-related?
Also try
Code:

ip link set wlan0 up
iw dev wlan0 scan

is wlan0 functional?


I created the wifi connection with nmcli (haven't had any issues with it up until last week I think was working for over a year perfectly before that)

rfkill list:
Code:
0: phy0: Wireless LAN
        Soft blocked: no
        Hard blocked: no
1: hci0: Bluetooth
        Soft blocked: no
        Hard blocked: no


I don't have iw installed and
Quote:
ip link set wlan0 up
does nothing.

ip a still shows:
Code:
wlan0: <NO-CARRIER,BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP> mtu 1500 qdisc noqueue state DOWN group default qlen 1000
    link/ether c8:e2:65:08:85:b8 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nmcli dev wifi rescan:
Quote:
Error: Scanning not allowed while unavailable.


nmcli dev wifi connect homewifi:
Code:
Error: No network with SSID 'homewifi' found.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Networkmanager recently changed the default from wpa_supplicant to iwd. Iwd changes the device name.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

I created the wifi connection with nmcli (haven't had any issues with it up until last week I think was working for over a year perfectly before that)


Apparently now you do.
jburns wrote:


Networkmanager recently changed the default from wpa_supplicant to iwd. Iwd changes the device name.

Plz try either of the two
1.Delete and recreate the wifi connection
2.Build networkmanager with USE="-iwd".If it works make it permanent via package.use.
Code:

I don't have iw installed and
Quote:
ip link set wlan0 up
does nothing.

Plz be willing to emerge
Code:

net-wireless/iw

and run
Code:

ip link set wlan0 up
iw dev wlan0 scan


Lets ascertain wlan0 is functional
If you prefer to not use iw try
Code:

nmcli radio wifi on
nmcli dev wifi list

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alamahant wrote:
Quote:

I created the wifi connection with nmcli (haven't had any issues with it up until last week I think was working for over a year perfectly before that)


Apparently now you do.
jburns wrote:


Networkmanager recently changed the default from wpa_supplicant to iwd. Iwd changes the device name.

Plz try either of the two
1.Delete and recreate the wifi connection
2.Build networkmanager with USE="-iwd".If it works make it permanent via package.use.
Code:

I don't have iw installed and
Quote:
ip link set wlan0 up
does nothing.

Plz be willing to emerge
Code:

net-wireless/iw

and run
Code:

ip link set wlan0 up
iw dev wlan0 scan


Lets ascertain wlan0 is functional
If you prefer to not use iw try
Code:

nmcli radio wifi on
nmcli dev wifi list


output from doas iw dev wlan0 scan: http://sprunge.us/mkvWfa
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so your wlan0 is functional.
Now plz delete and recreate the NM wifi connection.
Code:

nmcli con del homewifi
nmcli con add con-name homewifi ifname wlan0 type wifi ssid homewifi
nmcli con modify homewifi wifi-sec.key-mgmt wpa-psk
nmcli con modify homewifi wifi-sec.psk <password>
nmcli con up homewifi

This is dhcp setup.if you prefer static IP let me know.
If this works and to avoid further future disappointments plz use
Code:

net.ifnames=0

as a grub kernel parameter.
Of course in such case you will need to modify your ethernet connection also.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alamahant wrote:
Ok so your wlan0 is functional.
Now plz delete and recreate the NM wifi connection.
Code:

nmcli con del homewifi
nmcli con add con-name homewifi ifname wlan0 type wifi ssid homewifi
nmcli con modify homewifi wifi-sec.key-mgmt wpa-psk
nmcli con modify homewifi wifi-sec.psk <password>
nmcli con up homewifi

This is dhcp setup.if you prefer static IP let me know.
If this works and to avoid further future disappointments plz use
Code:

net.ifnames=0

as a grub kernel parameter.
Of course in such case you will need to modify your ethernet connection also.


I deleted and recreated the NM wifi connection but get this message:
Code:
Error: Connection activation failed: No suitable device found for this connection (device wlan0 not available because device is not available).


Wnen I do nmcli device this is what shows:
Code:
DEVICE  TYPE      STATE        CONNECTION
eth0    ethernet  connected    Wired connection 1
wlan0   wifi      unavailable  --
dummy0  dummy     unmanaged    --
sit0    iptunnel  unmanaged    --
lo      loopback  unmanaged    --
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok it seems NM is the problem.
Since you had no indications in dmesg and you were able to scan with "iw" it seems indeed NM is the problem
Plz try another version and/or open a bug report.
The following will let you know which wifi driver you use
Code:

lspci -nkk | grep -A3 $(lspci | grep -i wireless | awk '{ print $1 }')

Can you plz post the output
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Last edited by alamahant on Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alamahant wrote:
Ok it seems NM is the problem.
Since you had no indications in dmesg and you were able to scan with "iw" it seems indeed NM is the problem
Plz try another version and/or open a bug report.


Downgrading to 1.38.2 fixed the issue.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plz open a bug report.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

set
Code:
USE=-iwd


NetworkManager has changed its default from using wpa_supplicant to configure wifi to using iwd to configure wifi, and iwd ... just doesn't work I guess.

There's a bug report about it on bugzilla, but the responses seem to be more concerned with adding a news item that the default has changed, but doesn't seem to want to talk about fixing iwd. I dunno.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alamahant wrote:
Plz open a bug report.


That's not necessary.

pigeon768 wrote:
set
Code:
USE=-iwd


NetworkManager has changed its default from using wpa_supplicant to configure wifi to using iwd to configure wifi, and iwd ... just doesn't work I guess.

There's a bug report about it on bugzilla, but the responses seem to be more concerned with adding a news item that the default has changed, but doesn't seem to want to talk about fixing iwd. I dunno.


That's not necessary either as far as it's not related.

Udev is responsible for interface names. It has not been renamed to wlan0. It just hasn't been renamed to whatever the rules udev follows tell it to.

You won't find anything in any nmcli or even dmesg. Dmesg will only contain something *if* there was a rename, like:

Code:
kernel: iwlwifi 0000:04:00.0 wlp4s0: renamed from wlan0


There wasn't, that's why you have it as wlan0. Wired interfaces are ethX without udev taking care of them. Udev does that because sometimes interface names change depending on which driver loaded first and cause a mess. Udev takes care you have consistent interface names across reboots.

Check in /var/log/emerge.log if uder update occurred. Try reemerging it.

I'd recommend seeking help in #gentoo at Libera.chat. It's much faster and easier and you won't get into unnecessary stuff.

Regards,
Georgi
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See the Interface management section in https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Iwd, it gives what to change to prevent the device name change.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jburns wrote:
See the Interface management section in https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Iwd, it gives what to change to prevent the device name change.


So after all something is messing with udev.

But from this becomes clear that the OP is using testing packages, because I just synced and updated world and NM still has iwd disabled by default.

So the solution is:

Iwd Wiki Page wrote:
configuring setting UseDefaultInterface to true in /etc/iwd/main.conf


EDIT: Or as I continue to read about it, from the client perspective nothing has changed except if IWD is stopped. So maybe it needs to be enabled in OpenRC or Systemd and everything will work automatically.

EDIT2: I migrated and the only problem is that it didn't want to connect automatically. I needed to forget the old wireless networks and connect anew. I guess iwd won't work with wireless connections setup by wpa_supplicant.

EDIT3: as properly pointed out below, wpa_supplicant must be disabled. However with iwd my wifi only works in g modes.

Regards,
Georgi


Last edited by logrusx on Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:42 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

logrusx wrote:

Udev is responsible for interface names. It has not been renamed to wlan0. It just hasn't been renamed to whatever the rules udev follows tell it to.

You won't find anything in any nmcli or even dmesg. Dmesg will only contain something *if* there was a rename, like:


Still the OP changed ifname to wlan0 in nmcli invocation.
Still no wlan0 visible.
Apparently in the case of "iwd" it needs to be enabled whereas "wpa_supplicant" needs to be disabled or you will have a race condition.
Apparently NM know when to use it without the need to have it enabled by the user.
NM using iwd and causing havoc is rather irresponsible
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alamahant wrote:
logrusx wrote:

Udev is responsible for interface names. It has not been renamed to wlan0. It just hasn't been renamed to whatever the rules udev follows tell it to.

You won't find anything in any nmcli or even dmesg. Dmesg will only contain something *if* there was a rename, like:


Still the OP changed ifname to wlan0 in nmcli invocation.
Still no wlan0 visible.
Apparently in the case of "iwd" it needs to be enabled whereas "wpa_supplicant" needs to be disabled or you will have a race condition.
Apparently NM know when to use it without the need to have it enabled by the user.
NM using iwd and causing havoc is rather irresponsible


I wrote most of that before knowing iwd did its own interface management. Still nmcli and interface renaming is not going anywhere. Assuming what the issue is without confirming it is a sure way of unecessary trouble.

Neither wpa_supplicant, nor NM, nor iwd are to blame here. This is a question of proper migration. NM 1.38.4 is still marked testing for a reason.

Regards,
Georgi
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

logrusx wrote:

Neither wpa_supplicant, nor NM, nor iwd are to blame here. This is a question of proper migration. NM 1.38.4 is still marked testing for a reason.

Thats why it is good if the OP opened a bug report.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alamahant wrote:
logrusx wrote:

Neither wpa_supplicant, nor NM, nor iwd are to blame here. This is a question of proper migration. NM 1.38.4 is still marked testing for a reason.

Thats why it is good if the OP opened a bug report.


That is a bad suggestion unless you want to volunteer in bug processing.

In the mean time I'm migrating back to NM 1.38.2 and wpa_supplicant as 1.38.4 and iwd is still not good for use as evident.
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