Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
eselect news 2022-07-29-pipewire-sound-server
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

 
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Multimedia
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Waterdevil
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 15 Aug 2017
Posts: 153
Location: LaniakeaHypercluster VirgoSupercluster MilkomedaGroup OrionArm Sector001 GouldBelt SolSystem Austria

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:13 pm    Post subject: eselect news 2022-07-29-pipewire-sound-server Reply with quote

Hi reckless pipewire-pusher!


I came from vacation, made an update of gentoo and had no sound. After 5 days playing around I managed it.

And the next day you make glorious news! This is an absolute impertinence.

I insist, that a working system doesn't get broken from a change of configuration - I don't neet pipewire, I don't like it, I want get rid of it. Leave my configuration alone! %$&§!!!

I found no configuration without this unready buggy pipewire-bullsh..

If I want to change to another sound server "I" want to decide this!

I have no tv-set and NEED my gentoo system. On the other side I don't like to have a second windows system only as backup for such unprofessional approach without announcement.
_________________
_____________________
Aut semper aut numquam

Main-Sys: LianLi modded Big Cube 8000,X11DPG-QT,MEM:64G,LSI 9305,HDD:102TB(16x3T,8x6T,4x1T,1x0,5Tm.2,4x0,5TSSD),nVidia GTX1060,NIC:2x10GbSFP+,Fans:20,PSU:1200W+500W,UPS:APC1500VA,FibreChannel,Tandberg LTO-6
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sam_
Developer
Developer


Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 813

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your kind words.

I don't know what you're referring to with 5 days because it was only stabled (and the news item pushed at the same time) 2 days ago. The "announcement" is what a news item is.

The good news is, the change means you can explicitly choose which sound server you want, and no more pipewire interference. That's indeed the whole point of the change. No further changes are planned. The changes were foisted upon us by upstream as PipeWire is very new and changing quite a bit still.

The change was in ~arch for a bit longer. While I don't believe in breaking things in ~arch and it was never the intention, I will say that if you absolutely require things to always work, using stable for some packages may be a good idea. But note that the ebuild also gave messages for what to do anyway.

You may wish to consider using the stable versions of PipeWire and PulseAudio as well.

We endeavour to be professional and provide a good experience for our users, but if truly require enterprise professional-level support, you're free to take out a support contract.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
<3
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 1025

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

waterdevil it is not the gentoo devs that is pushing pipewire. It's upstream packages that are pushing it. Complain to them and have respect for Gentoo devs that are volunteering to help you.

That being said I am having the same issue. No audio, I followed the eselect news "2022-07-29 PipeWire sound server migration", I followed the instructions to use pulseaudio sound server, I am running openrc.

/etc/portage/package.use/pulseaudio wrote:
meda-sound/pulseaudio daemon

/etc/portage/package.use/pipewire wrote:
media-video/pipewire -soundserver


then I did:
Code:
emerge -puDvN world
emerge --depclean


I am using KDE/plasma stable but now I don't have any audio.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jplx-gnt2
n00b
n00b


Joined: 27 Jul 2022
Posts: 7
Location: San Jose, California

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Respectfully... this is not exactly "user friendly" because the sound is broken first on systems running pulseaudio (probably the majority of users)
in order to force the migration to pipewire. Is there no way to perform such a migration seamlessly? Maybe similar to the one for python3_10?
Additional respectful comment: with systemd, the four systemctl command should be run as user (not root), according to the gentoo pipewire handbook.
user $ systemctl --user disable --now pulseaudio.socket pulseaudio.service
user $ systemctl --user enable --now pipewire.socket pipewire-pulse.socket wireplumber.service
The sound is now working :-)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6012
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<3 wrote:
waterdevil it is not the gentoo devs that is pushing pipewire. It's upstream packages that are pushing it. Complain to them and have respect for Gentoo devs that are volunteering to help you.

But are they forcing it? For sound nothing that requires pulseaudio suddenly depends on pipewire, that is the entire point as it is a replacement sounds server BUT it doesn't mean it is ready to be hard pushed.

Now video sharing that's different... and it is (almost) the only way if you are on wayland.


But we are talking about audio here
_________________
https://www.otw20.com/ Where you can talk
Quote:
Removed by Chiitoo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hu
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 19147

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jplx-gnt2 wrote:
Respectfully... this is not exactly "user friendly" because the sound is broken first on systems running pulseaudio (probably the majority of users)
in order to force the migration to pipewire. Is there no way to perform such a migration seamlessly? Maybe similar to the one for python3_10?
Why is it broken? As I read the dependency information, PulseAudio users would have had USE=daemon default-enabled in 16.0, which would install pulseaudio-daemon. The USE flag is not default-enabled in 16.1, but the daemon should stay unless removed by a depclean. Therefore, it seems to me like a user would need to be quite unaware to disable their pulseaudio daemon:
  • Sync to a current tree
  • Upgrade media-sound/pulseaudio, and fail to notice that the USE flag is now disabled. The user ought to notice this and investigate.
  • Depclean the daemon.
Is there a shorter path that can break sound for a pulseaudio user? If not, how should the Gentoo developers guard against someone who uses depclean and approves removal of a key component?
jplx-gnt2 wrote:
Additional respectful comment: with systemd, the four systemctl command should be run as user (not root), according to the gentoo pipewire handbook.
user $ systemctl --user disable --now pulseaudio.socket pulseaudio.service
user $ systemctl --user enable --now pipewire.socket pipewire-pulse.socket wireplumber.service
As I read https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2022-07-29-pipewire-sound-server.html, that is exactly what the user is told to do:
Code:
  systemd users will also need to run the following commands:
  $ systemctl --user --now disable pulseaudio.service pulseaudio.socket
  $ systemctl --user --now enable pipewire.socket pipewire-pulse.socket
  $ systemctl --user --now disable pipewire-media-session.service
  $ systemctl --user --force enable wireplumber.service
What are you proposing should be different in the news item?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jplx-gnt2
n00b
n00b


Joined: 27 Jul 2022
Posts: 7
Location: San Jose, California

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What happened is this: the sound was working fine on several computers I use to practice with gentoo. After recent update, the sound did not work anymore on any of them. So, the sound was broken.
They all run gnome-wayland. After performing the steps under 1 of the news to use pipewire, the sound is working again on all of them.
As far as "user" is concerned, By "systemd user" I would understand people who use systemd, not an indication to run the following commands as user.
Respectfully.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
asturm
Developer
Developer


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 8640
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The '$' sign didn't give you a hint as well?
Respectfully.
_________________
backend.cpp:92:2: warning: #warning TODO - this error message is about as useful as a cooling unit in the arctic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hu
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 19147

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jplx-gnt2 wrote:
What happened is this: the sound was working fine on several computers I use to practice with gentoo. After recent update, the sound did not work anymore on any of them. So, the sound was broken.
We cannot reproduce that from the description provided, so we cannot tell whether you missed an obvious warning sign or if something more subtle is happening. Did you observe the flow I described?
jplx-gnt2 wrote:
They all run gnome-wayland. After performing the steps under 1 of the news to use pipewire, the sound is working again on all of them.
So you chose to migrate to pipewire rather than fix pulseaudio support. That is a valid choice, but not necessarily what other users would pick.
jplx-gnt2 wrote:
As far as "user" is concerned, By "systemd user" I would understand people who use systemd, not an indication to run the following commands as user.
The $ is a common hint, as asturm notes. In this case, the use of the --user parameter is, in my opinion, a strong indicator that this should be run as the user who wants service. Prior to this migration, did pulseaudio offer service despite you never enabling it in user scope?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jplx-gnt2
n00b
n00b


Joined: 27 Jul 2022
Posts: 7
Location: San Jose, California

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1 - Yes, I followed the flow closely and had the following pipewire file in /etc/portage/package.use:
media-video/pipewire sound-server
media-sound/pulseaudio -daemon
before running the sync, emerge update and depclean.
By the way, I am not the only one with this problem: Waterdevil started this conversation.
2 - pipewire ok on my systems (4 so far). Those systems are all different (old, recent, top notch).
3 - I think users would appreciate more than a "hint". Why not simply say: use the following commands as user?
Cheers!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 19505

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hu wrote:
The $ is a common hint, as asturm notes. In this case, the use of the --user parameter is, in my opinion, a strong indicator that this should be run as the user who wants service. Prior to this migration, did pulseaudio offer service despite you never enabling it in user scope?
I've not perceived it. I've seen use of actual variables or placeholders such as <placeholder>, but I don't recall a lone $. I don't know of a good solution, because it seems that no matter what is used, someone will use the exact data, even <CHANGE_THIS_TO_YOUR_USER_NAME>. Previously glancing at the output, I thought $ was a shell prompt. Especially considering "user@host $" or similar.
_________________
Quis separabit? Quo animo?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jplx-gnt2
n00b
n00b


Joined: 27 Jul 2022
Posts: 7
Location: San Jose, California

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the gentoo handbooks, usually root commands show "root # " and user commands show "user $". It is the case in the pipewire handbook.
Anyway, let us be positive: we clarified something if it needed to be clarified and the issue appears to be resolved as far as I am concerned.
Thank you for taking the time for your comments.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
asturm
Developer
Developer


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 8640
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jplx-gnt2 wrote:
By the way, I am not the only one with this problem: Waterdevil started this conversation.

As far as the rubbish in the OP goes, that was not about the news item at all, from what I can see that was failure to own up to running an ~arch system with all the potential breakage that *may* occur (migration news items were always written for stable users), then being solved by the news item.

Also, the news item makes no preference towards one or the other sound server. It is your *choice*.
_________________
backend.cpp:92:2: warning: #warning TODO - this error message is about as useful as a cooling unit in the arctic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
<3
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 1025

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<3 wrote:
waterdevil it is not the gentoo devs that is pushing pipewire. It's upstream packages that are pushing it. Complain to them and have respect for Gentoo devs that are volunteering to help you.

That being said I am having the same issue. No audio, I followed the eselect news "2022-07-29 PipeWire sound server migration", I followed the instructions to use pulseaudio sound server, I am running openrc.

/etc/portage/package.use/pulseaudio wrote:
meda-sound/pulseaudio daemon

/etc/portage/package.use/pipewire wrote:
media-video/pipewire -soundserver


then I did:
Code:
emerge -puDvN world
emerge --depclean


I am using KDE/plasma stable but now I don't have any audio.


I don't want to hijack this thread but I want to give an update in case anyone is wondering, after being tired of fighting with the changing nature of the Gentoo audio subsystem I decided to just bite the bullet and use option 1 from the "2022-07-29 PipeWire sound server migration" eselect news post and make pipewire the default sound server, now audio seems to be restored from what I see so far.

OK, I'll return everyone to the original topic.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Waterdevil
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 15 Aug 2017
Posts: 153
Location: LaniakeaHypercluster VirgoSupercluster MilkomedaGroup OrionArm Sector001 GouldBelt SolSystem Austria

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

sorry, but I was angry. I was so angry, that I let go 2 days before opening this post and so this was the friendly version :( .

I have two systems, one openrc and one systemd (I thought so at least one could survive. - 11. Commandment Thou shalt not being mistaken.).
Both are stable only with some packages ~arch, where emerge has errors.

Both lost the sound on July 26 after emerge -v --update --newuse --deep --with-bdeps=y --complete-graph=y @world.
There were obviously changes with sound on stable without announcement.

First try was stable pulseaudio-16.0, second try ~arch64 pulseaudio-16.1. Both didn't solve the problem.

If I tried media-video/pipewire -sound-server I got blocker, which I couldn't solve - maybe I'm too silly for solving blockers, because in 80% of updates, I have unsolvable blockers. So I only make updates all 6 months - and I'm always afraid like hell. In cases of blockers, I solve them with many manual emerges.

In the kind of:
# emerge -p > d1
# various cut and sorts
# i=0 ; for p in $(<d4) ; do ((i++)) ; echo $i $p ; emerge -1 $p ; done

If there is astonishingly no problem with emerge, then grub doesn't work or rescue shell appears (I have root on zfs). If none of these, I'm sure to be unable to emerge a very important package, because of an unknown and unsolved bug. Or pam locks me out for weeks, like I had.

This time I 1. was dropped into rescue shell, 2. after starting gnome "there is a problem..." and no login, 3. many blockers, 4. No sound. And then I freaked out!

I tried 4 days again and again with different configurations, emerge -e and consulting the gentoo handbook, pulseaudio, pipewire and so on (many internet sites i.e. arch linux, ubuntu). On July 29 20:50 suddenly it worked, but I didn't know why. I didn't see new news, but maybe there was an update during my tries on this day.

Next day I saw the announcement of changes, which hit me days before...

I still can't use media-video/pipewire -sound-server, so I'm impelled to use pipewire. This causes a crapton of 1. my airpods don't work anymore, 2. vlc crashes, 3. If I klick a mp3 then no more GUI and I have to kill -9 this process.

I'm not amused to open an infinity count of problem posts or endless looking for existing solutions, although it was running perfect previously.
_________________
_____________________
Aut semper aut numquam

Main-Sys: LianLi modded Big Cube 8000,X11DPG-QT,MEM:64G,LSI 9305,HDD:102TB(16x3T,8x6T,4x1T,1x0,5Tm.2,4x0,5TSSD),nVidia GTX1060,NIC:2x10GbSFP+,Fans:20,PSU:1200W+500W,UPS:APC1500VA,FibreChannel,Tandberg LTO-6
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sam_
Developer
Developer


Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 813

PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waterdevil wrote:
Hi,

sorry, but I was angry. I was so angry, that I let go 2 days before opening this post and so this was the friendly version :( .

I have two systems, one openrc and one systemd (I thought so at least one could survive. - 11. Commandment Thou shalt not being mistaken.).
Both are stable only with some packages ~arch, where emerge has errors.

Both lost the sound on July 26 after emerge -v --update --newuse --deep --with-bdeps=y --complete-graph=y @world.
There were obviously changes with sound on stable without announcement.

First try was stable pulseaudio-16.0, second try ~arch64 pulseaudio-16.1. Both didn't solve the problem.

If I tried media-video/pipewire -sound-server I got blocker, which I couldn't solve - maybe I'm too silly for solving blockers, because in 80% of updates, I have unsolvable blockers. So I only make updates all 6 months - and I'm always afraid like hell. In cases of blockers, I solve them with many manual emerges.

In the kind of:
# emerge -p > d1
# various cut and sorts
# i=0 ; for p in $(<d4) ; do ((i++)) ; echo $i $p ; emerge -1 $p ; done

If there is astonishingly no problem with emerge, then grub doesn't work or rescue shell appears (I have root on zfs). If none of these, I'm sure to be unable to emerge a very important package, because of an unknown and unsolved bug. Or pam locks me out for weeks, like I had.

This time I 1. was dropped into rescue shell, 2. after starting gnome "there is a problem..." and no login, 3. many blockers, 4. No sound. And then I freaked out!

I tried 4 days again and again with different configurations, emerge -e and consulting the gentoo handbook, pulseaudio, pipewire and so on (many internet sites i.e. arch linux, ubuntu). On July 29 20:50 suddenly it worked, but I didn't know why. I didn't see new news, but maybe there was an update during my tries on this day.

Next day I saw the announcement of changes, which hit me days before...

I still can't use media-video/pipewire -sound-server, so I'm impelled to use pipewire. This causes a crapton of 1. my airpods don't work anymore, 2. vlc crashes, 3. If I klick a mp3 then no more GUI and I have to kill -9 this process.

I'm not amused to open an infinity count of problem posts or endless looking for existing solutions, although it was running perfect previously.


"Needing" to do that usually means your system has other problems which must be resolved properly. People who always hit such blockers usually have deeper problems which unmerging just obscures, which is why they "always" hit them. It's not normal to have such issues.

You should open a thread next time you get blockers on doing a world upgrade.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AJM
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 157
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waterdevil wrote:
If I tried media-video/pipewire -sound-server I got blocker, which I couldn't solve - maybe I'm too silly for solving blockers, because in 80% of updates, I have unsolvable blockers. So I only make updates all 6 months


If you are saying that you only update your systems every six months I think that's the main source of your problems with blockers. If you upgrade much more frequently (I do maybe every 2 or 3 days but every week would be fine) then Portage has much less work to do and things are much more likely to go smoothly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Multimedia All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum