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shodanx
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:58 am    Post subject: Returning to Gentoo after 20 years Reply with quote

Hello,
I'm a gentoo user from 2002.
For various reasons, I haven't used much linux since then and I'm very very far behind.
Looking forward to installing latest gentoo on one of my very old HP G5 server.

Can you relate to me some of the important changes since, say, 2005-2006 (when I really got un plugged)

I herd a kerfuffle about something called "systemd", is that resolved ?

Any major changes I should know about ?

Maybe a history of the important stuff of the last 20 years in gentoo ? Is anyone keeping a journal or a history of gentoo ?
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Zucca
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:38 am    Post subject: Re: Returning to Gentoo after 20 years Reply with quote

shodanx wrote:
I herd a kerfuffle about something called "systemd", is that resolved ?
systemd is a "new" init system + much more.
A brief summary of init systems can be looked at: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Comparison_of_init_systems

Welcome back!
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Juippisi
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentoo's like these forums; nothing's changed in 20 years ;)

New people come in, old leave. Some old faces stay around. It's still pretty much the same ride.

On a more serious level there's definitely less breakages than to what you're used to, thanks to multiple tinderbox efforts and the powerful tree-CI system that's running. Just try it out and tell us what's the biggest difference in your opinion?
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FilthyPitDog
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as you stick with the handbook you'll be good to go! :)
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shodanx,

Portage has improved a lot.
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szatox
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
shodanx,

Portage has improved a lot.

Yeah, processors got faster and packages got bigger, so you can waste more cycles over the same time :lol:


BTW: move to gentoo chat? It doesn't seem to be a support thread.
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shodanx
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks !
Those replies are encouraging !

I do remember many random things breaking after running updates that I learned to never update a server, just rebuild it.
Some of my servers ran like this well over 10 years with no intervention

I have exciting projects to try now

I am going to spend the weekend messing around gentoo
I got two HP G5 and one HP G6 server and many HP 10G ethernet cards and M.2 drives on PCIE cards

My goal for the weekend is going to make a iSCSI server with RDMA support of some kind and get the other servers to net boot on it.

Next step I want to make a "cloud desktop" like shadow tech but DIY in my basement, maybe in some kind of VM or those new "container" things.

I started reading the handbook, seems like I won't have to learn systemd as the default is still the other thing !

Well, I'm surprised so few things have changed, but in a good way
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Hund
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shodanx wrote:
[...]

Well, I'm surprised so few things have changed, but in a good way


That's why I love Gentoo. Why change things when it works? :)
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crocket
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2022 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't use gentoo linux on a slow machine with little RAM. A server needs at least 16GB RAM. A desktop needs at least 32GB RAM.
CPU must be fast enough.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2022 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crocket,

Don't confuse using and build Gentoo. The two can be separated.

Use Gentoo wherever you want.
You may not want to build Gentoo on low end hardware
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crocket
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2022 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
crocket,

Don't confuse using and build Gentoo. The two can be separated.

Use Gentoo wherever you want.
You may not want to build Gentoo on low end hardware


If you have a good build machine, then you are right.

My main desktop is in my sleeping room. I don't want it to disturb my sleep with fan noise. Thus, I decided not to use the desktop as a build machine.
My desktop is not fast enough to not disturb my sleep if I want to build binary packages for each machine that I want to have.

Each machine has different USE flags. So, building once is not going to work. I would need to build binary packages for each machine.
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Hu
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2022 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crocket wrote:
Don't use gentoo linux on a slow machine with little RAM. A server needs at least 16GB RAM. A desktop needs at least 32GB RAM.
CPU must be fast enough.
For many years, I used Gentoo quite comfortably on systems smaller than this, both for servers and for a desktop.
crocket wrote:
If you have a good build machine, then you are right.

My main desktop is in my sleeping room. I don't want it to disturb my sleep with fan noise. Thus, I decided not to use the desktop as a build machine.
Build during the day, and suspend the build machine at night when you want to sleep.
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duane
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2022 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crocket wrote:
Don't use gentoo linux on a slow machine with little RAM.


Gentoo is more suitable for low-end hardware, since you'll probably get a faster, more efficient system out of it. I've never owned a computer that was too slow to build gentoo on, even when the updates are throttled (although, I haven't tried it on my raspberry pi yet). I've still got a core2 with 8GB of ram that handles it without any trouble.

Edit: I meant to say that gentoo is a better choice than almost any binary distribution, not that it's better to have older hardware than newer. :)


Last edited by duane on Wed May 11, 2022 1:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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sergiotarxz
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

duane wrote:
crocket wrote:
Don't use gentoo linux on a slow machine with little RAM.


Gentoo is more suitable for low-end hardware, since you'll probably get a faster, more efficient system out of it. I've never owned a computer that was too slow to build gentoo on, even when the updates are throttled (although, I haven't tried it on my raspberry pi yet). I've still got a core2 with 8GB of ram that handles it without any trouble.


I got Gentoo compiled recently in a pentium4 with 4GB of RAM which originally came with Windows 7 where Windows 10 was installed latter but it didn't detect the network card possibly by a missing driver.

Network worked on the first try in a genkernel generated kernel configuration.
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figueroa
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to maintain a Gentoo mailserver with a Pentium III and 512 MG RAM, arch 586. This was around 2006 or so. Around 2010, I made a stage4 tarball and imported the entire OS into a VirtualBox virtual machine giving it one core and 512 MG of RAM. It had up to about 15 local users who had no idea they got their mail from such a humble machine.
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papu
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

welcom again,

my testing gentoo is so fresh and improved like a new pc machine with same hardware from 2016.

just compiling is much more expensive than before at least in EU. :lol:

in my particular case the evolution of amd drivers and gaming last 3 years has been spectacular,
i always have used dual boot (linux/win) but my use of linux/gentoo today is 99% and that's the really important thing for me

enjoy it!

:mrgreen:
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eccerr0r
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Less breakages, but more frequent tough conflict resolution :D
duane wrote:
Gentoo is more suitable for low-end hardware, since you'll probably get a faster, more efficient system out of it. I've never owned a computer that was too slow to build gentoo on, even when the updates are throttled (although, I haven't tried it on my raspberry pi yet). I've still got a core2 with 8GB of ram that handles it without any trouble.

I wouldn't say "more suitable," rather, "can be targeted to" low end hardware unlike most other distributions that do not have a chance at running on these systems.

Sounds like you haven't run Gentoo long enough... I've had machines that worked perfectly fine back in 2003-2004 that aren't really usable anymore. I recall building and running Firefox just fine on 512MB machines, but now due to stuff out of Gentoo's controls, it's impossible to run on those machines and are swap storms when trying to build...
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Juippisi
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And here's a tip for laptop / older hardware users:
https://dilfridge.blogspot.com/2021/09/experimental-binary-gentoo-package.html

(I host my own binpkgs for my own laptop)
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Zannox
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 3:28 pm    Post subject: I, as well, am returning to Gentoo after about 18 years. Reply with quote

I contributed a bit to these forums in the early 2000's. Mostly gaming/nVidia drivers on Gentoo related. Then I got employed supporting RHEL for quite a few years. So it took a bit of adjusting to do my recent Gentoo build, this past weekend.

Some things I've noticed upon returning:

1) I built gentoo for a specific purpose, CMS. I've ran into a number of problems. Mostly the CMS' I'd like to use are currently either masked (Unstable), or the CMS itself isn't maintained/updated. I'd like to use OpenPHP-Nuke or PHP-Nuke. The latter has gone thru a number of changes in the past decade. Was open source, then you had to buy a license, now it's back to open source, but isn't maintained to my liking. Biggest issue is that it isn't updated to use Apache2, mostly the depreciation of the Order directive. Which was replaced with Require directive. All the CMS' seem to not have updated their code to the new directive. OpenPHP-Nuke hasn't been updated since 2005 or so.

2) I also wanted a forum. Pretty much the same problem as CMS. All the ones I want to use are masked. phpBB mostly security issues.

3) GPT and UEFI - Thats a new area for me as well, as RHEL handles it automatically on an install. So does most other distro's. I like gentoo FOR its ability for you to tinker and build everything the way you want. So building from stage 3, I found it a bit new/challenging, at first.

4) X and Desktops - All of them have changed so much. My favorite was always Enlightenment, especially e16. So I was excited to see how it had been developed. Have to admit, not a fan of the most current build. Its nothing like the old one in about every way possible.

5)Databases - Specifically mySQL, had to do a bit of research to find out what happened. Oracle bought it, enough said there! Thankfully it was forked to MariaDB by the developer before he sold mySQL. MariaDB turns out to be the same, with additional features, as my old trusty mySQL database.

I'm hoping I can fix the issues I run into with PHP-Nuke as I run into them. It's forcing me to update my PHP skills, which I haven't used in just about as long as Gentoo :) But I do love a challenge. Let's just hope it isn't beyond my scope. I may contact the maintainer of PHP-Nuke for help, if they are available.

Welcome back shodanx!
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5UrNkC27BJ
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Returning to Gentoo after 20 years Reply with quote

shodanx wrote:
Hello,
I'm a gentoo user from 2002.



me too! from before that, and beyond that, but back recently


shodanx wrote:


I herd a kerfuffle about something called "systemd", is that resolved ?



after learning a half dozen docker and container nuisances, I can say systemd is not the worst possible replacement of init.d but the docs for cmdline cron-job replacements needs some extra love, i wouldn't throw crontab out with the bathwater just yet.


shodanx wrote:

Maybe a history of the important stuff of the last 20 years in gentoo ? Is anyone keeping a journal or a history of gentoo ?



there should be about two important things on the headlines of the forum and phoronix, the liveCD is being maintained again, for now, and google summer of code is ... probably going to help google with an android/chromeos agenda but might benefit the rest of us too!
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5UrNkC27BJ
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crocket wrote:
Don't use gentoo linux on a slow machine with little RAM. A server needs at least 16GB RAM. A desktop needs at least 32GB RAM.
CPU must be fast enough.


i built and bootstrapped an opteron with 4 gigs of RAM on a 4gig USB stick. gentoo is no worse for the years but there's never been anything as useful as openmosix from that era since the late 2.9 kernels
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figueroa
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crocket wrote:
Don't use gentoo linux on a slow machine with little RAM. A server needs at least 16GB RAM. A desktop needs at least 32GB RAM.
CPU must be fast enough.

I can't imagine what expectations lead to such unreasonable statement of minimums. Two of my three servers are doing just fine with 4 GB RAM. My "good" server has 8 GB RAM most of which is seldom used. All three of these have slow by today's standards AMD Athlon/Phenom CPUs. Two have two cores, one has three cores dated from circa 2008-2010.

My "fast and new" desktop is identified at the bottom of my posts. It runs fast, cool, and quiet.

All of my computers run faster, better, with less fluff because they are running Gentoo. Using portage is a non issue. Just don't be in a hurry and don't watch the window where compiling is taking place.

Certain use cases for server and desktop computers require increased RAM and faster CPUs to perform decently. Those are the exceptions, not the rule for most uses.
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devehh
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Returning to Gentoo after 20 years Reply with quote

shodanx wrote:

I herd a kerfuffle about something called "systemd", is that resolved ?


Yes, I've installed Gentoo last week and all documentation was there to have systemd in your system. No issues.
Zannox wrote:
MariaDB turns out to be the same, with additional features, as my old trusty mySQL database.

Trusty? It's fast, but it's not trusty. Maybe you're thinking about PostgreSQL?
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Returning to Gentoo after 20 years Reply with quote

shodanx wrote:


I herd a kerfuffle about something called "systemd", is that resolved ?
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