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technotorpedo
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:44 am    Post subject: [split] I sitll have not installed gentoo Reply with quote

Split from How to install gentoo linux hellp me!!! (too many posts not related to that topic). --pjp

Never done it myself as yet. Of course what the others have already said makes sense. I asked a similar question though and one of the people here in the Gentoo community responded that he used and followed along with a Youtube video on the topic for his first Gentoo install and ended being successful.

Might give some Youtube searches a try and see if something like that could help you along ? Could help alongside the Gentoo install manual, maybe clear some steps up, make things easier to understand.
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technotorpedo
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I get ahold of something with better spec's planning to take the plunge too. Consider installing Gentoo something every person wishing to be worthy of full geek status must do (at least once.) Youtube will be a last resort as thinking suffering through the install via the guide is a part of the process all effected Linux users must endure. Part of the rite of passage and paying of dues. :D

But really for those lesser inclined, really is amazing how many things are covered on YT, love it. Fixed garage door torsion springs, broken washing machines, if someone wants a video how-to on it, probably covered on YT. Also want to successfully install Gentoo so that if ever venture into a Linux convention and the inevitable Arch gnu/Linux user starts droning on about Arch, I can simply say yeah ... Well I installed Gentoo sthu man. :D

Ps, Mostly kidding about the Arch part (mostly.) You know what they say, how can you tell somebody is using Arch Linux ? ... Don't worry they'll tell you. :P
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Installing Gentoo is not hard, you have to be methodical, pay close attention to responses to your commands and you can't cut corners. Sloppiness is your worst enemy.
Installing Gentoo first time is a great fun - if you like what you are doing. And probably a horror if you are forced to do it ...
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technotorpedo
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ :D Thanks and mostly get what you mean. That's one of the things which makes me a quasi-Gentoo fanboi, even if not a Gentoo user, people opting for something like Gentoo must mean people really interested in gnu/Linux and technology. Thus having learned a lot, knowing how it all actually works, built up much valuable experience etc. Certainly much more so than the fire n forget distro's.

Couldn't help it had to Google "site:youtube.com install Gentoo" Some good looking results. Going to download a couple and see what's in store. It's not cheating if it's prepping or just cause it's bound to be interesting material. Actually have much respect and admire the cold and calculating practicality of the guy who founded Arch or the core people, the philosophies etc.

Long thought (known)they intentionally make things more complicated to weed out folks unfit for the community/distro. Make people work for it. Arch linux was the only forum I've ever encountered where someone had to pass a test to finish registering. Had something like "What's the output of <random-string-of-characters>" during the process. Somebody had to paste it into a terminal and then paste output into a field to complete registration.

I get why and really overall very much approve nonetheless. Still funny watching the elitist attitude some of that userbase projects. Whereas with Gentoo, seems like you gals/guys roll out the welcome mat, here ya go ... that's how you do it but buckle your seatbelt kiddo. You're going to earn this install. Funny .. Arch is the only one ever required a test and Ubuntu is the only one I've ever seen that asked for a donation to Canonical Inc, before the installer was even finished. :D

Ah sorry guys, wayyyy too much coffee here.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

technotorpedo,

Just do it. You only teed to build your boot loader to get started.

You need the stage3, a kernel to go under it, available as a binary if you want and a boot loader.
That will get you to a Gentoo root shell. If you already have grub installed, add Gentoo to it.
There, nothing to build.
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technotorpedo
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Thanks NeddySeagoon, ah ... going to have to give it a shot, don't really know what it means though. A stage 3 is a mostly(or is a)finished base install and of course you've explained a -bin is a binary package. Lmao ... while looking over those YT vid links (got some downloading) found a webpg describing what Gentoo is and ? Even it has a table of contents. Though a good read. May as well try to tackle a stage 3 I guess. If got the general idea right, it's only going to be a root shell and binary kernel ?

Ah nah ... would feel too much of a 1/2 arsed go of it. Couldn't turn out good for much without committing to compiling much other stuff to use on it. Want the whole shebang, any and all yanking out of hair, face palming and pounding of head on desktop involved ... all the trimmings. The do it right or don't bother approach. Mucho respect for you though NeddySeagoon. Can I borrow 20 or 30gbs of RAM, you'll never miss it from that beast of a system you put together ? :D

Being an over caffeinated dork have 3hrs of instructional YT-vids to watch now though. At the end of that am bound to have a better understanding of things.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
At the end of that am bound to have a better understanding of things.

YT? This is the hard and slow way.

I remember vividly my first Gentoo experience. I read the Handbook, all of it, before I did anything else. Finished with Handbook I had very clear picture in my head what and how I'm going to do. Form Handbook I also learned I do not need Gentoo install disk, so instead of downloading it I grabbed Knoppix from my desk and the fun started. It hasn't ended yet!
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

technotorpedo,

Ignore YT. The videos are out of date, incomplete, misleading, or worse.

Do your install from the handbook and pick holes in YT afterwards.
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technotorpedo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is appreciated guys, won't argue with experience. You've both been doing this a long time. Still watching along with the vids cause it's interesting. Kind of gives a feel of what going through the process must be like. Will be sure to reference the guide first and foremost. Seems fairly slick and less intimating than expected. Of course won't know until trying and then still won't know how to create a well optimized Gentoo install.

Am sure that takes time and experience but it's certainly intriguing. Won't be long and planning to get another system, more computing muscle and modern spec's, the old beast can't last forever. Though will keep it going for as long as possible too. Its become a point of pride having such an ancient system running well. Amazing what gnu/Linux can do. Likely run through some virtual installs for awhile, try to get things down. What to build support for, what to exclude ... I won't have much of a clue.

Which OP, if your still following the thread, could be a good way to go about figuring things out for you too ? If your system supports virtualization would just have to be a matter of continuing to plug away until getting it done. Anyway thanks for the advice and tips guys.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can not learn to swim before than jumping in the water.
The words of the wisest teacher: "Dear all; today all of you are probably going to drown... but maybe not."
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technotorpedo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leonardo.b wrote:
You can not learn to swim before than jumping in the water.
The words of the wisest teacher: "Dear all; today all of you are probably going to drown... but maybe not."


LMAO ! Nice ... :D
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

technotorpedo wrote:
LMAO ! Nice ... :D

Why don't you face the truth? You will never install Gentoo. You don't have the desire, if you had it you wouldn't wait a minute.
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technotorpedo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries will for sure get around to it. Not now, all things in their time. I seriously, very seriously doubt Gentoo will sway me from Debian, it's what I'm used to, comfortable with and have spent a massive amount of time learning about. Though then again, won't know until I see for myself.

Not spending the next several days pounding all hades out of this ancient laptop(oops plus draining my phone dataplan dry no doubt too.) Whatever type of Gentoo install I'd end up with at best might be on par with a binary distro, more than likely could end up worse due to user error = Not knowing wth what I'm doing. Gonna wait for a system with virtualization support and better specs, shrugs. :)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

technotorpedo,

You can install Gentoo using Sneakernet
A live internet connection is not required.

You can even use your Debian install as the boot media. No live CD required.
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technotorpedo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Easy for you to say, you know what you're doing NeddySeagoon ! :) I do end up supplementing dataplan with sneakers often enough. Seems like what you mentioned would have to really up the complication level for someone who doesn't know much of anything about installing or setting Gentoo up. Have to be a nightmare hauling software to and from. Actually done my share of that and even with a binary distribution, it can be a real pain n the arse. They don't call it dependency hell for nothing.

Nah ... am in no hurry, not the right circumstances for me right now. It'll come ... Gentoo's been around 20yrs, should be around 20 more, I've been around mucho longer. Not sure I'll make another twenty. When get a decent opportunity, will try to make the best of it though. Where the hades did the OP go ? Get back here mister ! :D
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pjp
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@technotorpedo,

Please don't clutter other threads in support forums.

The discussion is fine, but too many off-topic posts derail the original thread. That makes it more challenging for the original poster to find help, as well as others trying to provide help.

Feel free to change the title of this thread if you'd like. The "[split]" is mainly to inform new readers that some posts may seem "odd" out of context from the original thread.
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technotorpedo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ No worries, you've been an admin and moderating Linux forums a longggg time. As you see fit, that OP pretty much packed it in a matter of minutes anyway. Not sure what other title would fit this madness, so Split seems as good as anything. :)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:01 pm    Post subject: Easy Reply with quote

I've been telling people for years that installing and running gentoo is much easier than common wisdom makes it out to be -- as long as you can follow instructions.

That usually gets loud laughs from technical support people. I can't imagine why. :roll:
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technotorpedo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the guys I watched via those Youtube vids did successfully complete it. Though having an install and a GOOD install think can be big time different things. He didn't opt to compile the kernel and if someone is going for an everything from source distribution like Gentoo would seem kind of odd not to compile the core/heart of the OS, shrugs. (oops: anal edit, make that he did compile the kernel but didn't customize any of the options in the .config file to adjust for his system. Went with the default .config unchanged.)

Then again ... he still managed it, 2 parts, around 1.5hrs. Oops plus all the compile time he skipped too. Looked a lot friendlier of a process than I was expecting. Like people here have already informed me, follow the guide main thing. Think it wouldn't be tough getting a working Gentoo install. All the stuff that must go into getting a really optimized or tuned Gentoo install. That I don't know but it's an appealing thought.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only truly tricky part is paying attention and not hurrying. Specifically reading and typing. Don't hurry the reading (or typing) and make sure you're typing the correct commands. Don't cut and paste (that encourages mistakes and is a bad habit).

If you have a working Linux environment, you can even do a "test / practice" attempt and not lose access to your "daily use" system. Although compiling may reduce responsiveness of some tasks. You can also stop and resume at any time. Use /mnt/gentoo. Download and build everything within that directory (excluding boot loader) and see how it goes. That may tell you whether or not you want to use Gentoo on that hardware. The base system without any additional packages is a good start to familiarize yourself with the general process.

Of course you can't "use" that install, but that's not the point. If you have external storage, you could even save the compiled work and reuse it later. Not too much later as it will become stale due to the nature of a rolling release.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

technotorpedo,

Since you like videos here's a video showing a part of a gentoo install. :)

It was shown at FOSDEM in an endless loop one year.
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technotorpedo
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys is appreciated and interesting. Will file away in tips and things to keep in mind. :) It's still obvious pretty much no other distribution on planet Earth could allow someone to customize a Linux install any more than Gentoo. Though am also a long way from understanding how someone can use that to best effect. Having watched a couple people complete the process, yeah .. Now I'm pretty confident it wouldn't be difficult to do a Gentoo install and have a working OS. Really being able to take advantage of options available, now that seems something different.

Understanding the relationship between packages on that level is still well above my paygrade. With a binary distro, users don't have to consider any of that, it's all decided for people. Unless they want to re-compile some of the core packages piece meal and I'm still considering doing that. Gentoo definitely remains on my 2do-list though and am planning to give it best shot at some point.
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technotorpedo
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny be warned, that link @NeddySeagoon provided is no small thing. Went to wget the file and saw size (16G) !!! So had to abort download. Did a little bit to confirm file size and yep, appears it's a whopper of a file. Was thinking no way in hell it could be 16Gb's that hours of dvd media but yeah guess it could be if it's covering a full Gentoo install.

Funny too, used the URL to the directory on that persons server that contains the .mp4 in Firefox and it directs to a page that just says "Go away" when people try to muck about in his directories. :D Was going to triple check and just right click properties on the thing to be sure of filesize. Going to have to bookmark that puppy and possibly view it later NeddySeagoon. :)

Ps, If I'm getting something wrong would appreciate someone letting me know. Would like to watch the thing. Still don't see how the file could be that damn big. Often download lists of full movies, yep ... via sneakernet and even a more than 2hr movie @ a lower resolution quality is only like 3-400mbs !!!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

technotorpedo,

Aww. Don't bother, really. It hours and hours of gcc output as the install is built.
There is no need to download it.
Code:
mplayer <URL>
will play it.

The first few minutes would do :)
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technotorpedo
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guy who put that video up seems like a bit of a jerk. No reason to have a file that big .. Don't see how any sensible person couldn't be aware that's ridiculous and can't think of a reasonable explanation other than a person trying to be an ahole. Watch my system compile sofware for hours ? Oh well ... pointless 2 cents I guess
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