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Is Gentoo source-based distribution or not source-based?
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Do you consider Gentoo a source-based distributive, if you can install binary precompiled package with uncontrolled code from official gentoo overlay without any explicit info about it?
yes
91%
 91%  [ 44 ]
no
8%
 8%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 48

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Bogdan107
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:29 pm    Post subject: Is Gentoo source-based distribution or not source-based? Reply with quote

I detect, that official gentoo overlay has precompiled binary packages with names without "-bin" suffix.

This is script to find that packages:
Code:

#!/bin/sh

has_deb() {
    grep SRC_URI "${1}" | grep -i "\.deb\""
}
get_pkg_name() {
    echo "${1}" | awk -F"/" '{print $6"/"$7}'
}
check_contains_deb() {
    filename="${1}"
    hasdeb=$(has_deb "${filename}")
    if [ -n "${hasdeb}" ]; then
   pkgName=$(get_pkg_name "${filename}")
   ! [[ "${pkgName}" =~ -bin$ ]] && echo "${pkgName}"
    fi
}

export -f has_deb
export -f get_pkg_name
export -f check_contains_deb

find /var/db/repos/gentoo -name "*.ebuild" -exec bash -c 'check_contains_deb "{}"' \; | sort -u


At now 2021-08-03 result of this script is:
Quote:

app-admin/puppet-agent
app-crypt/debian-archive-keyring
app-dicts/dictd-wn
app-misc/ca-certificates
app-office/wps-office
dev-ruby/puppetdb-termini
media-sound/spotify
media-video/unifi-video
net-im/slack
net-im/teams
www-client/google-chrome
www-client/google-chrome-beta
www-client/google-chrome-unstable
www-client/microsoft-edge-beta
www-client/microsoft-edge-dev
www-plugins/chrome-binary-plugins


I try to correct names of those packages in bug-tracking system:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?list_id=5706698&product=Gentoo%20Linux&query_format=advanced&resolution=INVALID&short_desc=must%20be%20renamed%20to%20-bin&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr

But I get info, that this names are correct by https://devmanual.gentoo.org/ebuild-writing/file-format/#binary-packages instruction.
Final verdict at https://bugs.gentoo.org/805977.

At now:
1) home page of www.gentoo.org site says "Welcome to Gentoo, a highly flexible, source-based Linux distribution.";
2) official Gentoo instruction "Ebuild File Format" allow usual naming of binary packages;
3) official gentoo overlay has precompiled binary packages without source code alternative and without any visual difference of binary packages.

Items 1 and 3 are conflicts and mutually exclusive.

If package in official Gentoo overlay has precompiled binary program, then:
1) Gentoo lose his grants to naming as source-based distribution;
2) Gentoo officially distruct security of systems, by hiding packages with uncontrolled functionality.

I think, that correct way to stay source-based - is allow to use binary-based packages, but marking them by some easy noticieable tag, like "-bin" suffix.

Do you consider Gentoo a source-based distributive, if you can install binary precompiled package with uncontrolled code from official gentoo overlay without any explicit info about it?
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bogdan107,

I voted yes as things are never as simple as they appear.

Binary only packages are almost always released under some non-free license.
e.g. media-sound/spotify requires users to accept LICENSE="Spotify".
and www-client/google-chrome requires users to accept LICENSE="google-chrome"

app-misc/ca-certificates does not provide any code. Its a convenience package so that users don't have to hunt down all the root certificates they want to trust in their web browser.
You don't have to use it.

Nobody will accidentally install binary packages in Gentoo, unless they do something silly in make.conf.

In short, the names don't really matter, its the LICENSE= value.

-- edit --

This may be a bit pedantic but Gentoo is not a distro. Its a toolkit that you use to design and install your own distro.
You use the tools as you will.
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Last edited by NeddySeagoon on Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Naib
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

are these packages optional?
are any required for a system to boot?

Also, your script has a bug, it missed net-im/zoom
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figueroa
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I vote YES. Liking the word that NeddySeagoon used, the framing of the issue seems pedantic. The fact that some programs are only available in binary format does not diminish Gentoo.

ADDED 8/6/2021: Also, www-client/vivaldi and www-client/vivaldi-snapshot are both binary only.
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Last edited by figueroa on Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:56 pm; edited 4 times in total
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fedeliallalinea
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spica wrote:
binary precompiled package with uncontrolled code from official gentoo overlay without any explicit info about it

As NeddySeagoon said portage usually warns you that you have to accept a license for these packages, so...
It's true that there are binary packages with open source license, usually the ones based on npm, maven,... package managers to be compiled and this is done because these programs download the necessary sources in their build process and this makes it impossible, or very difficult, to create the manifest with checksums (portage don't allow to download code in their src_* functions).
All this to say that in these cases it is preferable to have a binary rather than a program that downloads sources without control.
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xineg
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neddy's nuance spot on as usual, I of course also voted yes. Gentoo after all is a 'distribution' used to build your own distribution, and I feel people that do this, arguably get the most out of gentoo, I know in my use case there is nothing to compare it to. Often over the years I've heard people say things like gentoo is too much hard work.., but if your building AND maintaining your own distro gentoo actually saves time. Again it's all about your use case, and gentoo can be used for any and all use cases.
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Banana
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This may be a bit pedantic but Gentoo is not a distro. Its a toolkit that you use to design and install your own distro.
You use the tools as you will.

yes, yes and yes :)
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Zucca
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentoo is whatever you build it to be.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes :!:

i fall in love with gentoo from the start.

i tried many distros, but after one or two days i am boored and switch back to gentoo.

it is like a meditation when the code is running in terminal.

:roll:
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Bogdan107
you missing prominent candidate: firefox and gmp-autoupdate

often found in ./mozilla/firefox profile:
Code:
gmp-gmpopenh264
└── 1.8.1.1
    ├── gmpopenh264.info
    └── libgmpopenh264.so


@CooSee
+1
end of distro journey with gentoo in 2003
I like the idea of source code builds fits hardware characteristics
still waiting for open hardware
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

user,

risc-v?
That's one of several.
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dmpogo
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
are these packages optional?
are any required for a system to boot?

Also, your script has a bug, it missed net-im/zoom



And net-im/skypeforlinux
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dmpogo
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding was that -bin is used primarily when there is a source based alternative
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pa4wdh
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
user,

risc-v?
That's one of several.

Be aware that while the RISC-V ISA is Open Source, the SoC on this board isn't. That is for the RISC-V cores as well as parts like the memory/usb/pcie controllers. if board itself is pretty open, schematics can be found on that page.
I do think this is as close as we can get to a completely open PC.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget about sys-kernel/linux-firmware. Many people need this in order to get some hardware device to work. However, again, it's not in @system.

Voted yes
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keet
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just because you can install packages from source code in Debian or Fedora doesn't make them source-based distributions. Likewise, the fact that there are some binary packages available for Gentoo does not make it a binary distribution. It is by far predominantly, if not entirely for many people, source-based, much more than the contrary.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 3:22 am    Post subject: Re: Is Gentoo source-based distribution or not source-based? Reply with quote

Bogdan107 wrote:
I think, that correct way to stay source-based - is allow to use binary-based packages, but marking them by some easy noticieable tag, like "-bin" suffix.
I agree this would be a nice feature. But that feature does not change the outcome of Gentoo being based on source or not.

Unless I'm mistaken, all available binary packages are optional. Which means that your system will be 100% source based unless you choose otherwise.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes it is hard to distinguish where the binariness starts and sourceness ends.
If we compare Gentoo and Arch, the difference is where the binary was built, and their software delivery system.
pacman installs binary packages out of the box, and portage can do that as well with --usepkg
portage builds from source, but ABS can also be installed locally and the whole system can be rebuilt from source.
If all the packages were built locally using ABS, doesn't that mean that particular Arch installation is source based?
If all the packages were built by portage on a third server, and installed with --usepkg, doesn't that mean that particular Gentoo installation is binary based?
This is about source vs binary, and this discussion makes sense only and only if upstream provides source code.
If upstream provides only binary code, this has nothing with what package system or what linux flavor we use.
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Roman_Gruber
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers is also a binary blob
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Zucca
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spica wrote:
This is about source vs binary, and this discussion makes sense only and only if upstream provides source code.
If upstream provides only binary code, this has nothing with what package system or what linux flavor we use.
^ This exactly.
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