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Ralphred
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 3:48 pm    Post subject: Seeking Browser Advice Reply with quote

I've been using Falkon for a long time, and really like it, it's very fast, the kde integrations work well and the supplied addons/extentions covered my needs.
Recently though the addons have been failing, some of my greasemonkey scripts only partly work, and the adblocker lets too much through.
Here's a list of things I've tried and why I discounted them

Chrome: Already in use just for drm sites, need to keep separate, plus config in the browser not separate config windows, urghh
Firefox: Already in use for "I wont play nice" sites, would like to keep it separate, tabs above address bar, plus config in the browser not separate config windows, urghh
Falkon: Dodgy addons, don't know how to fix (would try if I could find some docs)
Palemoon: Slow
Opera: Just no, has the level of cookie control I want, but eew aesthetically. too much built in
Vivaldi: Almost, though can't alter the "interface bars" layout, doesn't use desktop native fonts for UI, would probably use "vivaldi-qt" if it existed.
Chromium: Need to rebuild because someone fixed a typo in the Polish translation etc., plus config in the browser not separate config windows
Next to try are otter and seamonkey...

I'm looking for more suggestions (or docs to fix Falkon). My ideal would be similar to when firefox used to have "ask for each site" as a cookie policy and "allow for session only" as an option, it made cookie maintenance easy.
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pietinger
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Seeking Browser Advice Reply with quote

Ralphred wrote:
I've been using Falkon for a long time, and really like it, it's very fast, the kde integrations work well and the supplied addons/extentions covered my needs.
Recently though the addons have been failing, [...] and the adblocker lets too much through.

I am using Falkon also for a long time now (before: Konqueror) and also like it very much. If you think adblocker lets too much through, then I can highly recommend my solution: Use Privoxy. Its easy and fast and will do what you want (I wrote a (german) guide for it: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1112806.html ).
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figueroa
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firefox for everything with Vivaldi as a compatibility fall-back.
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skiwarz
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only ever use firefox. Personally I just open up a private browser window when there are compatibility issues, and it gets rid of my customizations.

I'm not sure how well it would work, but you could try using two different profiles on firefox. One for normal use and one for the "wont play nice" sites. There is a command line option for it, i think.
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Ralphred
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Seeking Browser Advice Reply with quote

pietinger wrote:
(I wrote a (german) guide for it: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1112806.html )

This is a nice guide pietinger, I'll be using it to "internet sandbox" Chrome when I finish setting up a whitelist. I speak iptables so that part was easy, but you do lose a point for making me open it in chrome (native page translate needed to understand the nuance of privoxy set-up).
I'll add "Translate https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1112806.html to English and repost" to my TODO list, unless you have an objection?

skiwarz and figueroa, switching firefox profiles is easy, you can do it from the about:profiles too, but I have other issues with it. Vivaldi was so close, I could have patched the ui code to fix the aesthetics I didn't like, but it lacks the fine grained cookie control in FF,Palemoon, Falkon, and annoyingly Opera too, and would require privoxy to teach it manners. It will end up being my default fall back if the "Falkon addon research" fails, but I'm hesitant to farm the level of cookie control I want to a 3rd party extension...

I've since tried otter and seamonkey, and for various reasons were discounted. I managed to fix the grasemonkey problem so for now I'm just moving "sites with problematic adblock circumvention" to FF with the "won't play nice" sites.

For anyone else who takes data privacy seriously this is a nice article.
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Fitzcarraldo
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't install Falkon anymore on my older laptop running KDE because Falkon depends on qtwebengine, which I have completely removed from that machine. I use Firefox on all my machines unless a particular site does not display properly in Firefox, in which case I use Chrome, although I avoid Chrome otherwise due to Google's snooping.

EDIT: I already avoided Chrome as much as possible before Google's latest ploy: Why You Should Avoid Google Chrome’s New FLoC Tracking.
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Ralphred
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fitzcarraldo wrote:
I already avoided Chrome as much as possible before Google's latest ploy: Why You Should Avoid Google Chrome’s New FLoC Tracking.

Yeah, they are a nightmare, I used to mess around with compatible widevine plugins to keep netflix working on Falkon, but once I switched to amazon, which I couldn't get to work at all in Falkon, I just installed the Chrome binary and only use it for that, plus will be properly implementing privoxy as above.
My gmail account is redundant and just a backup for my dns and domain registrars, I took android off my phone and don't use the Chromecasts anymore, so other than watching films on amazon, I'm google free. If I can get proper widevine support in vivaldi (and stop it phoning home) I'll switch to that, but my todo list is quite long ATM.

I'm going to tinker with the python/QML interface in Falkon when I get time too, see if I can make it do useful things, along with wanting to get Plasma_Bigscreen working on the Pi.
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Zucca
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Firefox everywhere. I'm not a "fanboi", but when it comes to compatibility with different sites - it works. Also the developer tools are awesome if you need them.
I've used some forks of Firefox, but they either lack in progeress (mich might not be a bad thing) or have completely stopped developing.

My favorite web browser has probably been uzbl. Sadly its development has been stalled.

The current state of web browsers is horrible in my opinion. Much of the underlying features are something what operating system could provide... and also Google knows it - ChromeOS. ;P

Web browser is such a big project if one starts to keep an up-to-date fork of Chromium or Firefox.
There's one which is not a fork: netsurf. But even these forums don't look right in it.
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Ralphred
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO webkit/webengine needs to be further forked and modularised, I just can't see an argument to keep this monolithic "os in a box" paradigm, my whole system is built on discrete packages working in harmony, why do you have to be different?

EDIT:
Quote:
NetSurf 3.10 is available for: RISC OS; Linux and other UNIX-like systems; AmigaOS 4; and more.
cute.
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sdauth
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use palemoon as it is the only one with decent build time on my system (well, with netsurf of course!); sometimes I emerge firefox-bin when I need to purchase a thing on bloated & horrible websites like Amazon, Aliexpress etc. The browser current state is quite horrible to be honest.
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mainly use firefox (just because that's what I'm used to, went from netscape to firefox and never had any reason to change).
Brave's good imho.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ralphred wrote:
IMHO webkit/webengine needs to be further forked and modularised, I just can't see an argument to keep this monolithic "os in a box" paradigm, my whole system is built on discrete packages working in harmony, why do you have to be different?

modularised Not a bloated intertwined mess like webkit. One should be able to attach different javascript engines and other components. Security is a joke. No way can a massive integrated application written in multiple languages (C, Rust, and how many more?) be released every month without creating more security holes and bugs than were fixed. FF needs the UNIX philosophy here: many small pieces glued together with well known and well tested OS tools.
Maintenance would be easier and quicker compiling and linking smaller packages instead of one bloated monster every time something needs fixing.
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Leonardo.b
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If modularized, the concurrency would reuse the pieces and they would loose the market.

If a browser would be safe and bug free, many things would break.
Nobody wants to support a free service for a browser where it is impossible to run nasty Javascript.

Bad buisness.
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Ralphred
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leonardo.b wrote:
If a browser would be safe and bug free, many things would break.

Only the business models of data slurpers, nothing of value would be lost :P
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Leonardo.b
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eh, it may be.
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dmpogo
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was on falkon then switched to vivaldi after getting tired of compiling qtwebengine. Recently became less happy since now I need to download chrome-binary-plugins in addition, which is a full chromium size (so perhaps I just should use binary chromium ?) Have firefox-bin installed in case

One, thing, it seems I am moving more and more towards binary blobs for applications that I actually use. brower, skype, zoom, master-pdf-editor, etc. + rust-bin
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The Main Man
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Librewolf
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Ralphred
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmpogo wrote:
after getting tired of compiling qtwebengine

I've only got it installing 4 times a year
Code:
# genlop qtwebengine
 * dev-qt/qtwebengine

     Wed Jun 24 03:49:45 2020 >>> dev-qt/qtwebengine-5.14.2
     Wed Oct 21 14:12:55 2020 >>> dev-qt/qtwebengine-5.15.1
     Tue Mar  2 11:02:26 2021 >>> dev-qt/qtwebengine-5.15.2
     Sun May  9 15:14:01 2021 >>> dev-qt/qtwebengine-5.15.2_p20210224
I hope "p20210224" isn't an indicator of it becoming regular.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leonardo.b wrote:
If modularized, the concurrency would reuse the pieces and they would loose the market.

If a browser would be safe and bug free, many things would break.
Nobody wants to support a free service for a browser where it is impossible to run nasty Javascript.

Bad buisness.

What market? we are talking FOSS.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ralphred wrote:
dmpogo wrote:
after getting tired of compiling qtwebengine

I've only got it installing 4 times a year[.

It's a start but too humongous. Needs top be split into separate (functional?) libraries.
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Ralphred
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony0945 wrote:
Needs top be split into separate (functional?) libraries.
You're preaching to the choir buddy, but with SaaS in the browser being a thing, it will take some FOSS heroes to do it, none of the big tech guys would risk market share or breaking some app.
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Leonardo.b
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony0945, data collecting's market.
I agree with your points.
I'm just pessimistical.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leonardo.b wrote:
I'm just pessimistical.

Hah! The story of my whole adult life! And I'm hoping to be a great-grandfather soon.
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Ralphred
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2021 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the input guys. The result is I can't find a replacement that is as agreeable as Falkon.

FF and Chrome have been kicked to the curb and replaced with Vivaldi for accessing "won't play nice", "have aggressive adblock countermeasures" and "need widevine support" websites, and gets filtered through privoxy running on the router/server. Instead of "staying logged in" on most sites I let it store passwords, and have all cookies deleted on exit by an extension (except the sites whitelisted).
I had no idea how good Falkon was in comparison to the competition until now, and just can't find a replacement that is as fast, as configurable and as inoffensive regarding phoning home, so it's going to stay. If you have qtwebengine installed and haven't tried it you really should, widevine support is even working ATM.
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Zucca
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2021 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kajzer wrote:
Librewolf
Did you consider?
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