Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
Dustbin: Why?
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

 
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Forums Feedback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
psycho
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 282
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:05 pm    Post subject: Dustbin: Why? Reply with quote

Hi there. I just received an innocent-looking Gentoo forums link in my email, so clicked on it...and it took me to a pile of offensive racist ranting in the "dustbin". When I attempted to reply (to ask "why is this offensive crap still visible?") I was informed that only moderators can reply to posts in the dustbin...so presumably moderators have already seen this garbage and yet left it visible. Why? Isn't a page with flagrantly racist language and wishing death upon certain developers and so on worthy of instant deletion? What's the value of keeping this crap around for others to read?

I've seen e.g. this thread, but that's not a good explanation for why normal users like myself should still be able to read this stuff. I have a friend who's actually traumatised when she sees the kind of stuff I just read: admittedly I think she's a bit over-sensitive, but when some people feel knocked around by this kind of hateful language, I think you need a good argument for leaving it where they can stumble across it...and the arguments in the linked thread (having it as a reference to be able to show banned posters "look, this is why we banned you!" etc.) are unconvincing to me: why can't moderators have those communications with banned forum users without leaving their offensive posts published for others to see? Surely flagrant hate language and racist trolling should just be deleted immediately or if it's going to be moved to this "dustbin", the dustbin should only be accessible to moderators?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 47613
Location: 56N 3W

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

psycho,

If its still visible, PM me a link or write to forum-mods@g.o so it goes to the entire team.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hu
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 16693

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The post was originally not in the Dustbin, and was moved to Dustbin because that should be visible only to moderators and administrators (Edit: later posts indicate this statement is incorrect; Dustbin is accessible to anyone logged in. This makes most of the rest of this post wrong/irrelevant, but I am leaving it for context.). More specifically:
  • Dustbin should not be enumerable by unrelated normal users. There should be no way for users to even learn the titles of threads in the Dustbin, nor for users to know how many threads are in the Dustbin, nor to learn who authored any thread in the Dustbin.
  • Threads in Dustbin should not be accessible to unrelated normal users, even by directly entering the thread ID or post ID. There should be no way for unrelated normal users to obtain the content of any post in the Dustbin.
  • As Dustbin is meant as an archive, there is also no ability for normal users to write there.
Perhaps the e-mailed link bypasses some of those restrictions. If you send the link, as you received it, like Neddy suggested, someone should be able to investigate further.

As an interim measure, the thread you likely meant has been moved to a different restricted area. When you pass along the link, please also indicate whether you can still get to that thread in its new location.

What user profile settings do you use that might have led to the forum mailing you about this thread? I see no activity from you in the offending thread, so I don't think the forum should have mailed you as a result of any follow-up posts in the thread. Does the forum generally e-mail you about threads, and if so, what are the triggering conditions? I am curious why the forum even sent this alert to you at all, in addition to the oddity that you were able to access a hidden thread.

Are you able to enumerate Dustbin? Are you able to access other posts in it, or just this one?


Last edited by Hu on Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:12 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 18838

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hu wrote:
The post was originally not in the Dustbin, and was moved to Dustbin because that should be visible only to moderators and administrators.
Unless I'm not understanding how that works, both View and Read are set to registered users (others are all moderator).
_________________
Magna Carta (1215) | Spectral evidence no longer permissible (c. 1792) | Cancel culture, deplatforming (c. 2016)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mike155
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 17 Sep 2010
Posts: 2659
Location: Frankfurt, Germany

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am able to view and read Dustbin when I'm logged in.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hu
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 16693

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see. I don't maintain a non-moderator account, and I don't see where to see the permissions on that forum, so I couldn't check that. Before making my earlier post, I did verify that the Dustbin was inaccessible to anonymous users. I thought (apparently incorrectly) that Dustbin was private enough. I am pleased to report that, according to the audit logs, I am not the one who binned the thread that psycho is reporting, so it looks like I'm not the only one who was thinking that the Dustbin was good enough. :)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tony0945
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 4645
Location: Illinois, USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some i can see, others don't exist. it's a real annoyance to get an email that says there is a response to a thread I'm watching, disrupt my e-mil routin to click the link, browser comes up, and i get a message that the post doesn't exist.
Perusing the dustbin in response to this post, I see some that be read and others that don't exist. None of the readable ones are political or pornographic, just commercial spam with links disabled.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
psycho
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 282
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The link now takes me to "The topic or post you requested does not exist", which is good. Maybe I just got unlucky and caught it very soon after it had been posted, while it was en route to somewhere else...given the specifics of the language it used, maybe the binning was automated (scripted in response to keywords) and it was just there briefly until a moderator checked it to delete it, or something like that. Anyway it's gone now, and I don't care what else is still published there in the bin...it was only the (non-existent, apparently) policy of leaving offensive stuff in there that I was questioning.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 47613
Location: 56N 3W

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

psycho,

The mods have a bin button, that they use several times a day. It does what it says ... moves topics to the bin.

Its an interesting point about should the Dustbin be Mods only?
Most users that have postings the bin are out and out spammers. They are banned too, so they can't log in to read their binned posts anyway.

The fewer more experienced hands that made what a mod considered an error of judgement, are likely to get a PM rather than a ban.

I don't have any strong preference either way. On the strength of one topic, I would leave the status quo.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hu
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 16693

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

psycho wrote:
it was only the (non-existent, apparently) policy of leaving offensive stuff in there that I was questioning.
In my opinion, your thread here served a useful purpose. It reminded me that Dustbin is registered-users, not moderators-only. Prior to posts in this thread, I thought it was moderators-only. Based on some of the other posts, I think I was not the only one who thought that the Dustbin was restricted. I agree with Neddy that a single incident is probably not worth changing the access controls, but it is worth remembering that the Dustbin is not appropriate for certain types of isolation, so posts like the one that you reported here ought to be sent to a different, more restricted, forum.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fedeliallalinea
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 25447
Location: here

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, it's my fault.
_________________
Questions are guaranteed in life; Answers aren't.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hu
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 16693

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but I would have made the same mistake if you hadn't gotten there first. Now we both know not to do that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 47613
Location: 56N 3W

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

/me confesses too.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Forums Feedback All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum