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Prolifiration of specialized build sysems [rant]
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Ionen
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmpogo wrote:
If a developer wants to write his docs in rst - sure, his choice, but it is 2 sec of CPU to convert them to roff before packaging. You know rst and roff looks almost the same, why should I get first and not the second ?
Most devs do in fact take extra care and include pre-generated man pages (along with other stuff like generated autoconf files), but not everyone will do it and you just need 1 package to pull in all the deps by itself.

Lot of sources are just as-is generated from github/gitlab and the like without any real post-processing, and are left up to downstream maintainers to handle for users.
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Ionen
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To go back on the original net-misc/bind-tools issue, they _do_ provide built man pages but that one single tarball had a mistake in it that caused it to rebuild them (despite being available) and gentoo immediately added the sphinx dep as the initial solution and was very unwilling to remove it :| .. despite, again, the man pages being already generated, plus users providing patches to use those. Thankfully another more willing maintainer came in and solved everything.
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dmpogo
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ionen wrote:
dmpogo wrote:
If a developer wants to write his docs in rst - sure, his choice, but it is 2 sec of CPU to convert them to roff before packaging. You know rst and roff looks almost the same, why should I get first and not the second ?
Most devs do in fact take extra care and include pre-generated man pages (along with other stuff like generated autoconf files), but not everyone will do it and you just need 1 package to pull in all the deps by itself.

Lot of sources are just as-is generated from github/gitlab and the like without any real post-processing, and are left up to downstream maintainers to handle for users.



I agree that gentoo maintainers are not the guilty party, indeed opposite, they took effort to make non-trivial ebuilds which do the job. And indeed, Gentoo model is that tarballs come from upstream, and patching/modifying is done on user machines via ebuild scripts. So maintainers intercepting and modifying the tar balls is not a standard workflow. My beef is with upstream.
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing I want the gentoo devs to do, is write a proper ebuild, with the ability to drop man/doc generation if I so desire. If I can figure out how to modify an ebuild to do that, then the brilliant gentoo devs should certainly be able to. If I want docs, there's everything from google searches for man pages, to docs from the upstream website itself (usually).
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Ionen
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blaming upstream is fine but that's never going to change anything given can't expect every single upstream conform, gentoo adding QA policies on the other hand is something that "could" be done.

One (rejected) attempt was:
Code:
Packages must not disable installing manpages via USE flags (e.g.
USE=man or USE=doc). If upstream does not ship prebuilt manpages
and building them requires additional dependencies, the maintainer
should build them and ship along with the package.
But despite being rejected seems not having USE=man remain some unwritten rule, but the part about building them went away.

Not wanting to build them is fine, but I do find it questionable if optional things that add dependencies don't get USE flags anymore :(
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