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ulenrich
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:28 am    Post subject: Ase: Maybe there are less homosexuals Reply with quote

The asexuals are the last of the minorities to get acceptance and their emancipation. Many of them living as couples who never have sex together. In the decades behind us we all thought: Ok, again some people who refuse to come out as homosexual probably because they think religously. But they may be just ASE. Also there might be some who mention sexual abuse as a child only to get along in society as an ASE.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last of the minorities would be the Transgender ASE's of Color.

You gotta keep your Identity Politics in order. If not, THEY will dox you and and make you a societal pariah.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are also dogs, horses, heels, just give it time.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
The last of the minorities would be the Transgender ASE's of Color.
I had a laugh seeing this sentence. But in the end no, because it is valued higher to be part of multiple minorities like ASE + Transgender(*) + Color

Nevertheless, perhaps these newly revealed ASE people are one of the largest sexual minorities but never seen before. It is mind exploding for me, because I had added these large quantity of people to all the other sexual minorities that were known to me beforehead:
homosexuals, child abused, religiously abused, autistic, etc.

For sure to ignore ASE people is like to not see the largest middle east nation - the kurds - just because they have no country.

(*) PS Transgender and ASE:
This would reveal something more about Transgender, if social scientists would investigate how ASE people handle identity problems. Is it important for an ASE ?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
Old School wrote:
The last of the minorities would be the Transgender ASE's of Color.
I had a laugh seeing this sentence. But in the end no, because it is valued higher to be part of multiple minorities like ASE + Transgender(*) + Color

Nevertheless, perhaps these newly revealed ASE people are one of the largest sexual minorities but never seen before. It is mind exploding for me, because I had added these large quantity of people to all the other sexual minorities that were known to me beforehead:
homosexuals, child abused, religiously abused, autistic, etc.

For sure to ignore ASE people is like to not see the largest middle east nation - the kurds - just because they have no country.

(*) PS Transgender and ASE:
This would reveal something more about Transgender, if social scientists would investigate how ASE people handle identity problems. Is it important for an ASE ?


Being transgender means having an identity different from what society expects from you... it's a difference in one's innate sense of self, caused by genetic and hormonal divergences from what normally happens during gestation.

Asexuality is an orientation/attraction, like being homosexual, whereby you simply aren't sexually attracted to anyone. Not everyone feels the need to boink everything that moves.

Your orientation and your sense of self aren't linked... I'm a post op trans woman that's attracted to women, making me a lesbian. I didn't transition because my orientation made it convenient to be a girl, but because I needed to be myself, and who I'm attracted to never changed in there. Certainly, it would have been a lot easier for me to be a guy since I like women, but I was never a guy, even if that's what other people expected from me because I was born with a penis.

Just because someone eats a pure meat diet doesn't make them a man, nor does being a vegan have to imply someone is a woman. We simply like what we like, our identity doesn't change just because that like might not be stereotypical of a gender. Asexuals just like to eat Kellogg's corn flakes. :lol:
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

noyb wrote:
ulenrich wrote:
Old School wrote:
The last of the minorities would be the Transgender ASE's of Color.
I had a laugh seeing this sentence. But in the end no, because it is valued higher to be part of multiple minorities like ASE + Transgender(*) + Color

Nevertheless, perhaps these newly revealed ASE people are one of the largest sexual minorities but never seen before. It is mind exploding for me, because I had added these large quantity of people to all the other sexual minorities that were known to me beforehead:
homosexuals, child abused, religiously abused, autistic, etc.

For sure to ignore ASE people is like to not see the largest middle east nation - the kurds - just because they have no country.

(*) PS Transgender and ASE:
This would reveal something more about Transgender, if social scientists would investigate how ASE people handle identity problems. Is it important for an ASE ?


Being transgender means having an identity different from what society expects from you... it's a difference in one's innate sense of self, caused by genetic and hormonal divergences from what normally happens during gestation.

Asexuality is an orientation/attraction, like being homosexual, whereby you simply aren't sexually attracted to anyone. Not everyone feels the need to boink everything that moves.

Your orientation and your sense of self aren't linked... I'm a post op trans woman that's attracted to women, making me a lesbian. I didn't transition because my orientation made it convenient to be a girl, but because I needed to be myself, and who I'm attracted to never changed in there.
...
Certainly we would expect there are asexuals for example born as man but who would like to be a woman. As it is unimportant how their genitals are seen, can such a woman (with a penis) develop an imagination of her own body that she is able to see her penis as a long clit? Could she be at comfort with herself by psychological power of her mind being a woman without a woman body ?
As a scientist you also could make statistics about different ages (or not), when a serious attempt is initiated for a change of identity and other differences. I would expect you could learn something for people who are not having this "straight" line of change like you, noyb! ...Yes, I have read your description of you problems in your young age.

There is a lot more to think about with this new meme of asexuality: For example the communities in manasteries. We saw them predomately as pedophile or homosexual. But if the largest sexual minority is the one of asexuals, this would change our view on this phenomenon in the middle ages.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
noyb wrote:
ulenrich wrote:
Old School wrote:
The last of the minorities would be the Transgender ASE's of Color.
I had a laugh seeing this sentence. But in the end no, because it is valued higher to be part of multiple minorities like ASE + Transgender(*) + Color

Nevertheless, perhaps these newly revealed ASE people are one of the largest sexual minorities but never seen before. It is mind exploding for me, because I had added these large quantity of people to all the other sexual minorities that were known to me beforehead:
homosexuals, child abused, religiously abused, autistic, etc.

For sure to ignore ASE people is like to not see the largest middle east nation - the kurds - just because they have no country.

(*) PS Transgender and ASE:
This would reveal something more about Transgender, if social scientists would investigate how ASE people handle identity problems. Is it important for an ASE ?


Being transgender means having an identity different from what society expects from you... it's a difference in one's innate sense of self, caused by genetic and hormonal divergences from what normally happens during gestation.

Asexuality is an orientation/attraction, like being homosexual, whereby you simply aren't sexually attracted to anyone. Not everyone feels the need to boink everything that moves.

Your orientation and your sense of self aren't linked... I'm a post op trans woman that's attracted to women, making me a lesbian. I didn't transition because my orientation made it convenient to be a girl, but because I needed to be myself, and who I'm attracted to never changed in there.
...
Certainly we would expect there are asexuals for example born as man but who would like to be a woman. As it is unimportant how their genitals are seen, can such a woman (with a penis) develop an imagination of her own body that she is able to see her penis as a long clit? Could she be at comfort with herself by psychological power of her mind being a woman without a woman body ?


Again, orientation and identity aren't hard linked together, so being asexual exists on the X axis and gender identity exists on the Y axis.

(assigned male at birth) Transsexuals don't like/want to be a woman, they innately are a woman, but society says they're supposed to be a man. Most of us do our best to attempt to be men, even going so far as to go ultra masculine, joining special forces, doing extreme sports, etc, in an effort to try to convince ourselves that we can be a guy if we just try hard enough... but no matter how hard we try, no matter how masculine of a body we may have, we never internally identify as male.

Think of the ST:TNG episode "Chain of Command," whereby no matter how much Picard is tortured, he refuses to break and say that there are anything other than four lights, because that is the truth. For someone suffering gender dysphoria, the principle is similar - no matter how much someone else tries to tell us who we are and who we have to be, no matter how tempting it is to try to be that thing, we always revert back to our truth - that, in my case, I am a woman.

Honestly, being trans is incredibly difficult - so difficult that self harm often becomes the primary means of escape - sometimes that means drug use leading to addiction and accidental overdose, sometimes that means cutting and other forms of self-flagellation, and sometimes, that means attempting suicide. Transitioning, especially successfully transitioning and finding social acceptance, largely alleviates those symptoms... However, even the most successful transitioners remain insecure, not about whether transitioning was right for us, but because some people in society go out of their way to belittle us and magnify our experience, to the point that we sometimes question whether we're deserving of even being considered human or remaining alive... and for many of the bullies that refuse to accept us, that is the goal - to bully us to the point where we give up, so that the bullies can claim that they were right all along.

And everyone experiences dysphoria in different amounts depending on the specific issue we're talking about. Some trans people just want to be seen for who they are in public even if their genitals don't bother them (and they simply see themselves as a girl with a penis), while others, like me, have such intense dysphoria regarding our parts that we have to correct them to feel comfortable with ourselves. The "transtrenders" that claim that "dysphoria isn't necessary to be trans" don't experience dysphoria at all and have nothing to do with being transsexual.

Asexuals are simply people that aren't sexually attracted to other people... some may still masturbate, but to many, they simply don't have any sexual needs or desire.

Quote:

As a scientist you also could make statistics about different ages (or not), when a serious attempt is initiated for a change of identity and other differences. I would expect you could learn something for people who are not having this "straight" line of change like you, noyb! ...Yes, I have read your description of you problems in your young age.


A lot of kids innately understand their orientation at a young age... I was first attracted to another girl when I was 4 or 5. Nobody thinks all that much about it when their orientation is straight, since that's the norm. People only tend to be dismissive about attraction at that age when it is something other than straight. By the time puberty hits, hormones do their thing, and everything gets a bit weird and difficult for everyone, but when I was coming of age, you were forced to stay in the closet or else you'd face constant mockery, physical violence, and ostracism from your peers (and adults!) As acceptance increased, more people starting coming out of the closet, and, well, edgy rebellious teens always want to be edgy and rebellious so you get the "I'm totally bi, even though I only date straight" stuff going on. Even today, my ex, whom is 30, uses the bi label to hide the fact that she's probably a full blown lesbian from her homophobic parents, because they refuse to accept her.

Gender identity works the same way... some kids will know early, some might figure it out later, some might not have the strength to admit it until they're adults... and it's all because of a similar type of rejection from others.

Quote:

There is a lot more to think about with this new meme of asexuality: For example the communities in manasteries. We saw them predomately as pedophile or homosexual. But if the largest sexual minority is the one of asexuals, this would change our view on this phenomenon in the middle ages.


Some are almost certainly asexual, but some others may be sexual but truly believe in their devotion to their god to forgo the pleasures of the flesh...
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMG. tl;dr
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
OMG. tl;dr

Brevity is the soul of wit.

I believe I have used that quote about some of your lengthy posts. :wink:
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The entire discussion of sex vs. orientation vs. gender is just intended to sound academic while lacking substance. The fact is that what you find when you pull down someone's pants describes 100% of their biological realities. No one really cares what you like to do with it. The edge cases of developmental dysfunction either in physical or mental processes related really don't merit much consideration or change the discussion about sex. Basically everyone agrees that one should be polite and not make an issue. What more could you possibly ask?

The real purpose of all this couldn't be more clear. Its to control people and use them for political power or money. If you challenge academics on gender is a social construct citing cases like John/Joan (David Reimer) they have a melt down. They know the proof against their ideas exists but they refuse to address it. They also refuse to accept the logical conclusion of the alphabet soup is that there is no such thing as transgender because if male and female don't exist you can't transition. It also follows that if gender is a social construct then it is perfectly fine to pass laws against homosexuality, sodomy, or any other "deviant" sexual practice since we outlaw plenty of socially disliked or unhealthy behavior. Of course, that is completely ridiculous.

As for asexuals, no. There are about one or two of them ever recorded. They literally don't get sexual attraction. That is not the same as having a low or repressed sex drive. Those are real issues that can and should be treated as they have very real consequences. The only true asexuals are literally biologically asexual and almost completely lacked any sexual characteristics.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Bones McCracker wrote:
OMG. tl;dr

Brevity is the soul of wit.

I believe I have used that quote about some of your lengthy posts. :wink:

Hey, you need anything? I can send marshmallows.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
Old School wrote:
Bones McCracker wrote:
OMG. tl;dr

Brevity is the soul of wit.

I believe I have used that quote about some of your lengthy posts. :wink:

Hey, you need anything? I can send marshmallows.

:lol: You are such an ass. :lol:

Officers.... :twisted:
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These aren't the words you're looking for.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't acknowledge the existence of the ASE minority if you think it is about the two people on earth without any sexual organs. It is about the largest minority of sexual orientations, perhaps half of mankind. But surely everyone joins this group when occupied with other things than sexual behavior.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
You don't acknowledge the existence of the ASE minority if you think it is about the two people on earth without any sexual organs. It is about the largest minority of sexual orientations, perhaps half of mankind. But surely everyone joins this group when occupied with other things than sexual behavior.

Half of Mankind. Half of Mankind? Half of Mankind! :?

If it was anywhere close to half of Mankind, we would have been extinct long ago.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
The entire discussion of sex vs. orientation vs. gender is just intended to sound academic while lacking substance. The fact is that what you find when you pull down someone's pants describes 100% of their biological realities. No one really cares what you like to do with it. The edge cases of developmental dysfunction either in physical or mental processes related really don't merit much consideration or change the discussion about sex. Basically everyone agrees that one should be polite and not make an issue. What more could you possibly ask?


The edge cases ARE the issue... because everyone accepts the norm, but to argue that the edge cases don't matter at all, and thus the discussion can be summarily dismissed, is to argue that those people and what they experience doesn't matter. It might not matter to you personally, but it very much matters to us and the people that love us. If you don't want to participate in that discussion because you'd rather stick your fingers in your ears or just want to monologue your opinion without a back and forth, then, by all means, don't participate since you aren't actually interested in having a discussion.

Quote:

The real purpose of all this couldn't be more clear. Its to control people and use them for political power or money. If you challenge academics on gender is a social construct citing cases like John/Joan (David Reimer) they have a melt down. They know the proof against their ideas exists but they refuse to address it. They also refuse to accept the logical conclusion of the alphabet soup is that there is no such thing as transgender because if male and female don't exist you can't transition. It also follows that if gender is a social construct then it is perfectly fine to pass laws against homosexuality, sodomy, or any other "deviant" sexual practice since we outlaw plenty of socially disliked or unhealthy behavior. Of course, that is completely ridiculous.


...and this is an area we can agree on... I largely denounce the entire field of gender studies as something that exists primarily to give the people who study it something to do, and that something leads directly to the Balkanization of people into camps that can war against each other for political and financial purposes.

Recently, I participated on a panel meant to train a local university's faculty and staff on trans issues, and the facilitator, whom is a professor of gender studies and trans himself, argued that "transsexual" is a bad term that should never be used, and that drag queens (typically gay men that do not identify as a woman, but often seek to mock femininity in general and transsexual women specifically in the form of a modern minstrel show), fetishistic cross dressers, etc, are actually more valid as trans people than transsexuals are. He was shocked, first of all, by the fact that I actually challenged his ideas, but in that he got so caught up in the academic promotion of his ideas and the notion that he had to check his own privilege (as someone that successfully transitioned), that he rejected his own identity in the process, showing just how little thought goes into their shallow ideology... an ideology that he is not only preaching to an entire campus, but that he advocates the promotion of universally. And, because of the idea that you need to "check your privilege" and you only have the right to discuss something you have a disadvantage in yourself, only another trans person can "acceptably" call him out on that. However, most trans people on campus are going to be students fearing a reprisal from a person that has power over them, to say nothing of the fact that, if you were to challenge the activist view of transsexualism, the militant activists will do everything they an to destroy you from speaking out.

Quote:

As for asexuals, no. There are about one or two of them ever recorded. They literally don't get sexual attraction. That is not the same as having a low or repressed sex drive. Those are real issues that can and should be treated as they have very real consequences. The only true asexuals are literally biologically asexual and almost completely lacked any sexual characteristics.


Asexuals are not people born without sexual organs, they're simply people that don't experience sexual attraction... you can have full reproductive functionality but just not ever want to participate in a sexual relationship with someone. Think Nikola Tesla.
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