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Zucca
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. Palemoon really does sound like a nice browser, but since it's diverged quite a lot from Firefox, I doubt it'll support container tabs. :| I cannot live without container tabs and container proxy extension.
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tld
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NathanZachary wrote:
Can you detail what you mean by Pale Moon working with "pure alsa"? I'm guessing that somewhere along the line, Firefox started requiring something else as an abstraction layer? I'm fighting with it regarding input/output devices for sound & video.
As of FF 52 or so they dropped alsa support and required pulseaudio...not sure what if anything else it might with, but it won't use also directly.

Tom
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Chiitoo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:24 pm    Post subject: ><)))°€ Reply with quote

I've been using QupZilla (now Falkon) and/or Otter since 2014 or so.

Falkon uses Qt WebEngine, so it's not exactly an escape from Chromium, unfortunately. Otter can use it too, but it likes Qt WebKit more, which has a bit of an unstable future/current status (though a new release of WebKit is work in progress).

For some reason I like running with the latest Qt (5.15.9999 right now) and these browsers, to help test and develop them a bit.

figueroa wrote:
tld wrote:
For what it's worth, I've been very happy for quite some time now with the unofficial palemoon overlay:

If Palemoon is so great and I should trust it, why isn't it in the standard repository where it might get more oversight and visibility?

I can't remember any actual developer comments on it, nor user effort for proxy maintaining it, but I do remember funny things like the Pale Moon developer apparently insisting on the license using their exact font [1], which isn't doable in an ebuild file... and it has probably been pretty restrictive with regards to GCC and such versions it builds with for example. In general the project does not seem to be supportive towards "regular users" compiling from source [2] at all.

I think there was/is a related topic or topics at the Pale Moon forums, but I couldn't find it/them quick-like right now.

All that probably just doesn't exactly lure in willing maintainers too easy-like, though things may have changed quite a bit during the last few years.

1. Post 8060308
2. Post 8105102

NathanZachary wrote:
Can you detail what you mean by Pale Moon working with "pure alsa"? I'm guessing that somewhere along the line, Firefox started requiring something else as an abstraction layer? I'm fighting with it regarding input/output devices for sound & video.

As mentioned (while I was typing this), Firefox dropped support for plain ALSA, and instead started requiring PulseAudio.

There's some discussion (and a link to the upstream bug) here: Firefox 52 has landed
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tld
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: ><)))°€ Reply with quote

Chiitoo wrote:
... and it has probably been pretty restrictive with regards to GCC and such versions it builds with for example.
That at least is no longer the case. This is from the overlay ebuild for the version I'm running (www-client/palemoon-28.8.2.1):
Code:
REQUIRED_BUILDSPACE='9G'
GCC_SUPPORTED_VERSIONS="4.9 5.4 7.3 8.2 8.3 9.2"

Really a shame about that bizarre hostility towards Gentoo and compiling from source in general. I'd forgotten about that. The browser itself has been building and working great for me though.

Tom
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Zucca
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just saw this: https://www.zdnet.com/article/firefox-to-remove-support-for-the-ftp-protocol/

But there will be extensions...
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axl
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

u know. it's funny. remember the time when ftp was relevant?

in 2000s and 2010s was still semi-relevant. with ssl layer. and other tricks. I still used it, or know of places where it was used.

I know NO places that still use ftp today. It's mostly git. devs have a branch for developing, or compartmentalization, and there's usually a guy that has to do the pull on the server, after the devs are in agreement that the push is ready for the server. Everyone I know, and pretty much all my jobs are around that principle.

must have been glorious in the 80s. the ftp protocol. it's pretty much useless now.

as a side joke... who ever though http would ever get so big. but I think i might have told that one already.
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figueroa
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

axl wrote:
u know. it's funny. remember the time when ftp was relevant?

I use FTP locally in my LAN, closed to outside users, but I don't keep the server running anyway. It's all script based and scripts start and stop the server in coordination with the local transfer. It's for my convenience, not because I'm the smartest rock in the box.
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Ionen
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still use ftp with a few misc devices that can't really run any estalished software and nobody bothers writing anything complex for beyond a simple ftp server.

But do I need ftp support in a browser? nah
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axl
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

figueroa wrote:
axl wrote:
u know. it's funny. remember the time when ftp was relevant?

I use FTP locally in my LAN, closed to outside users, but I don't keep the server running anyway. It's all script based and scripts start and stop the server in coordination with the local transfer. It's for my convenience, not because I'm the smartest rock in the box.


at some point, options just overlap. and you dont need as many as you needed 20 years ago. there's also, nfs, samba for some people, and scp for people like me.

web developers are the most problematic bunch in my book. they all moved to git... thank god. from my point of view I can go on using scp, nfs and samba still works... And we can sadly close down ftp.

it's not like I can't start it up again if I need it. but I find more use in tftp these days than I find in ftp. it's a whole dhcp thing. never mind.
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axl
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and in regards to ftp... who the hell uses a browser to talk to a ftp server? obviously a thing of the past.

although on the other hand... how much code can it be to talk to a ftp server?
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Hu
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember even within the last few years encountering open source related sites that would direct me to an anonymous ftp server via an <a href="ftp://... tag. Thankfully, they all offered http mirrors of the same data.

As for how much code it can be, well, it's probably less than for WebUSB or WebGL or one of the other crazy modern ideas that should never have been added to a browser. :)
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with FTP is the browser makers can't dictate its standards and how it's used, so it's really bad for vendor lock-in.
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Terry_Davis
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luke just made a good summary on this topic; good for discussion & its YT comments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHHGmtCiW0o
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figueroa
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry_Davis wrote:
Luke just made a good summary on this topic; good for discussion & its YT comments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHHGmtCiW0o

Which one are you pushing?
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Terry_Davis
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

figueroa wrote:
Terry_Davis wrote:
Luke just made a good summary on this topic; good for discussion & its YT comments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHHGmtCiW0o

Which one are you pushing?


I wish we had better options. Pale Moon & ungoogled-chromium seem to be the most private. I agree with Luke on his critiques of them both. There are a bunch of sites like this:
https://digdeeper.neocities.org/
The github threads pushing privacytools.io to change their recommendations (and always get vetoed) seem revealing too.
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ChrisJumper
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On Desktop i use firefox and on Mobile Phones i use bromite.org
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Perfect Gentleman
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PaleMoon is bad, it doesn't have most of useful extensions.
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RoGeorge
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you name a few extensions you need, but Pale Moon doesn't have them?

Many of the old Firefox extension are compatible with Pale Moon. Also, uBlock Origin, probably the most used extension, apparently is missing, but can be installed from GitHub (https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?t=19024).

No idea about emerging or compiling extensions, I just install them.
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