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Muso
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
Hmmm, the article you linked to claims differently than I thought. It's the Sun though, so not sure how credible it is.


It's China. I don't trust anything the government claims. Social media posts will be sensational, but I've watched multiple videos being dragged into their homes and locked in.

I think the death rate in China was probably much higher, the number of infected also much higher. The CPC was spending way too much effort into silencing whistle blowers and clamp down on any information that makes the CPC look incompetent (which would be anything true, more or less),
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently it was an overzealous official scared about infective persons arriving from Wuhan and the bars were later removed:

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fmp.weixin.qq.com%2Fs%2FfQodID5WLGRI7AR0VltT7w&sandbox=1

The same is very likely going to happen to NewYorker fleeing the city.

Quote:
The video showed that a staff member wearing a mask was pasting a yellow-on-red notice with the words "This household is a returnee from Wuhan, please do not touch" on the white wall on the left side of the door of the resident.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
pjp wrote:
erm67 wrote:
alchohol and opiates lower the lungs functions and can be dangerous better pain-killer or FANS whatever you already have at home
FANS?

Sorry NSAIDs
Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug

They said that ibuprofen worsen the symptoms, than said it doesn't, than that maybe it does, but probably it is an hoax.
Thanks. I only found the obious when trying to decipher what FANS might have meant :) I also heard that about ibuprofen, so hoping to eventually see that verified.


richk449 wrote:
As for the length, that may depend somewhat on how how strict the lockdowns are, and how early they are instituted. If you do a half-way lockdown, and it doesn't fully stop tranmission, then the lockdown may drag on for months. Seems better to just go all the way, and minimize the length. Emperically, full lockdowns for something like a month seem necessary to kill transmission.
It would seem that once normal is resumed, even if it is a more cautious normal, transmissions would go above 0. Since it seems highly contagious, what from a month lockdown prevents the transmission rate from returning to "normal"?

richk449 wrote:
But as far as I understand it, they welded doors and windows so that there would only be N entrances, and each entrance could be manned by a person checking temperatures.
That sounds pretty insane. I was only suggesting the order, not literal sealing of doors controlled by "approved persons."
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
I also heard that about ibuprofen, so hoping to eventually see that verified.

Well it is an hoax
https://www.netdoctor.co.uk/parenting/news/a26412/should-you-give-ibuprofen-chicken-pox/

Some smart persons interpreted that as don't use ibuprofen with viruses, but it should not be used only for chicken-pox
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
richk449 wrote:
Hmmm, the article you linked to claims differently than I thought. It's the Sun though, so not sure how credible it is.


It's China. I don't trust anything the government claims. Social media posts will be sensational, but I've watched multiple videos being dragged into their homes and locked in.

I think the death rate in China was probably much higher, the number of infected also much higher. The CPC was spending way too much effort into silencing whistle blowers and clamp down on any information that makes the CPC look incompetent (which would be anything true, more or less),

I don’t trust China or the sun.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
I don’t trust China or the sun.


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:


richk449 wrote:
As for the length, that may depend somewhat on how how strict the lockdowns are, and how early they are instituted. If you do a half-way lockdown, and it doesn't fully stop tranmission, then the lockdown may drag on for months. Seems better to just go all the way, and minimize the length. Emperically, full lockdowns for something like a month seem necessary to kill transmission.
It would seem that once normal is resumed, even if it is a more cautious normal, transmissions would go above 0. Since it seems highly contagious, what from a month lockdown prevents the transmission rate from returning to "normal"?

The idea is that the lockdown wipes out the transmission, so you are starting with a low infection rate. When you lift it, the transmission rate will go back up, but you can be ready to fight each small outbreak, backtracking and quickly testing anyone who might have caught it, and quickly isolating them. Search for “the hammer and the dance”.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
I'm in high risk group. Double risk, if I may say so. Age, cancer treatment took my strength and weak lungs. Call me pussy, but I do not want my chances with this virus. I hope they develop a vaccine before it is too late for me. In any case, if you don't see me logging in here at least once a week then ...
In the Netherlands the scientists select anti-bodies from survivor bloods. They want to find the kind which neutralize Coronavirus the most and then replicate these. That not a vaccine but will be an effective cure.

Last edited by ulenrich on Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
I think the death rate in China was probably much higher, the number of infected also much higher. The CPC was spending way too much effort into silencing whistle blowers and clamp down on any information that makes the CPC look incompetent (which would be anything true, more or less),
A chinese journalist (living in Germany) says the white mask they take on their faces in China symbols disrespect against the CPC. The people want to show they don't believe in state propaganda.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the Coronavirus as Deadly as They Say?

Quote:
Fear of Covid-19 is based on its high estimated case fatality rate—2% to 4% of people with confirmed Covid-19 have died, according to the World Health Organization and others. So if 100 million Americans ultimately get the disease, two million to four million could die. We believe that estimate is deeply flawed. The true fatality rate is the portion of those infected who die, not the deaths from identified positive cases.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Is the Coronavirus as Deadly as They Say?

Quote:
Fear of Covid-19 is based on its high estimated case fatality rate—2% to 4% of people with confirmed Covid-19 have died, according to the World Health Organization and others. So if 100 million Americans ultimately get the disease, two million to four million could die. We believe that estimate is deeply flawed. The true fatality rate is the portion of those infected who die, not the deaths from identified positive cases.


So, it's an internet virus then? Had all the hallmarks, wipes out an economically draining older population an scared everyone off the streets of Hong Kong. Now China is going to 'save' failing health systems elsewhere with face-mask shipments.

My skepticism remains undiminished tbh.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trump actually addressed that in one of his press conferences a few days ago. Apparently the numbers are showing a mortality rate lower than previously reported and much closer to 0.5-1%. I'd accept the explanation that other countries are having bigger problems because their healthcare wasn't prepared and is overwhelmed. In any case, it looks like Trump's idea to reopen the economy by Easter is a very good idea. Staying shutdown much longer doesn't look viable and even that may be pushing it too far. I'd say another week, maybe two and most of the country should be put back to work. Of course, I don't have all the information and I'm assuming a lot from data I don't have.

Especially with democrats holding a gun to everyone's head and demanding everyone bow down to their agenda. I've seen widespread push back and life long democrats walk away over it and Polosi is still at it.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Fauci brought up an obvious point, this might become a seasonal illness like the flu. We can't be locking ourselves up and shutting down the world's economy every year.

Fundamentally, social distancing should be the norm (which would make me super happy, stay 2 meters away from me and greet me with a bow, like a gentleman). People need to become more aware of the germ theory of disease and behave accordingly.

The real way out of this, and all future messy Chinese pandemics, is to understand how viruses are spread and just change behavior.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug
did buy a few grams of CBG (Cannabigerol) and gave it to elderly family memebers.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
Trump actually addressed that in one of his press conferences a few days ago. Apparently the numbers are showing a mortality rate lower than previously reported and much closer to 0.5-1%.


USA pop 327,932,400 70% will be infected means 229,552,680 will catch COVID 10% of them will need ICU 22,955,268 but there are only X ICU beds in the USA, if all of them will get an ICU bed for 8 days mortality will be 2,295,526 (worst case), if not it will be a lot higher up to 18,364,214. If the epidemic is uncontrolled not even the USA has so many ICU beds.
Flatten the curve means that a lot more people will get an ICU bed.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

e3k wrote:
erm67 wrote:
Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug
did buy a few grams of CBG (Cannabigerol) and gave it to elderly family memebers.

That was for you, the elderly don't need it. A lot of people feels the intense pain in the throat an call an ambulance overloading the system, the paramedics will take the blood oxigen levels and if normal just tell you to stay home. If everybody had an oximeter there would be a lot less useless ambulance trips.
Yesterday in a retirement home here 1 patient was suspected to have COVID and the nurses called an ambulance, hours later 10 elderly were dead ...... It is a killer for the the elderly.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
A lot of people feels the intense pain in the throat
have been trough this some months ago. instead of calling the ambulance i recommend brewing an infusion of Agrimonia eupatoria. And not only for throat but any kind of inflammation.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

e3k wrote:
erm67 wrote:
A lot of people feels the intense pain in the throat
have been trough this some months ago. instead of calling the ambulance i recommend brewing an infusion of Agrimonia eupatoria. And not only for throat but any kind of inflammation.

Good for the liver it appears, it contains
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursolic_acid
Try this instead it works better:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchicum_autumnale
not for the elderly of course, it could kill them.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
Try this instead it works better:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchicum_autumnale
not for the elderly of course, it could kill them.
Crocus is known to be poisonous. Did not work with this one yet and would not know how to dose it. Might my first and last time if i try. I will stick to plants where i have previous experiences and go for sure.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

e3k wrote:
erm67 wrote:
Try this instead it works better:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchicum_autumnale
not for the elderly of course, it could kill them.
Crocus is known to be poisonous. Did not work with this one yet and would not know how to dose it. Might my first and last time if i try. I will stick to plants where i have previous experiences and go for sure.

In fact
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/24/blog-posting/drinking-chloroquine-fish-tank-cleaner-wont-stop-c/
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.biofarm.ro/en/products/medications-with-prescription/musculoskeletal/colchicina/

It is impossible to find here in Pharmacy, sold out everywhere. Maybe it works or not. Only one thing is sure people that badly need this medicament can no longer find it.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:

It's China. I don't trust anything the government claims. Social media posts will be sensational, but I've watched multiple videos being dragged into their homes and locked in.

I think the death rate in China was probably much higher, the number of infected also much higher. The CPC was spending way too much effort into silencing whistle blowers and clamp down on any information that makes the CPC look incompetent (which would be anything true, more or less),

Those 21 million phone accounts which vanished were not just accounts. Consider two facts. First, there was info leaking about dead bodies being cremated without counting nor identifying them. Second, their government makes it very hard to live without a smartphone.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
Muso wrote:

It's China. I don't trust anything the government claims. Social media posts will be sensational, but I've watched multiple videos being dragged into their homes and locked in.

I think the death rate in China was probably much higher, the number of infected also much higher. The CPC was spending way too much effort into silencing whistle blowers and clamp down on any information that makes the CPC look incompetent (which would be anything true, more or less),

Those 21 million phone accounts which vanished were not just accounts. Consider two facts. First, there was info leaking about dead bodies being cremated without counting nor identifying them. Second, their government makes it very hard to live without a smartphone.
it is China so it does not have to be Corona fatalities but can also be killings ordered by the government.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe 21 million will really die in the second wave of COVID that will arrive in China from the rest of the world, we'll discover if they lied.

Quit smoking might not help after all.
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202002.0408/v1

Quote:
In conclusion, our findings may indicate that smokers, especially former smokers, and people over 60 have higher risk and are more susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 infection. Also, this study provides hints on possible SARS-CoV-2 pathogenicity mechanisms in lung infection.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doctors And Nurses Say More People Are Dying Of COVID-19 In The US Than We Know
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