Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
Replacing Chromium
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page 1, 2  Next  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
NathanZachary
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 2504
Location: /home/zach

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:56 pm    Post subject: Replacing Chromium Reply with quote

Hello all,

I'm just looking to get some feedback here. For years now, I have used a combination of Chromium & Firefox (with some lighter alternatives of Dillo & eLinks "just in case"). I'm tired of Chromium due to the extremely long compilation times, and privacy concerns with Google. I'm planning on sticking with Firefox, but looking to replace Chromium with one or more of the following browsers:

Midori
Opera
Vivaldi

Midori seems like a good choice for my needs, but I am also considering Opera or Vivaldi. I know that they are both based on the Blink engine from Chromium.

Any feedback regarding these browser choices alongside Firefox? Pros or cons regarding compilation time, usability, and privacy?

Thank you!

Cheers,
Nathan Zachary
_________________
“Truth, like infinity, is to be forever approached but never reached.” --Jean Ayres (1972)
---avatar cropped from =AimanStudio---
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jaglover
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 7711
Location: Saint Amant, Acadiana

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought Opera and Vivaldi are closed source? Thus, there is no compiling time and being closed source there is no way to tell how private they really are. I keep Chromium because in past there were a few sites where Firefox had problems.
_________________
Please learn how to denote units correctly!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NathanZachary
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 2504
Location: /home/zach

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like Vivaldi's source code is available:
https://vivaldi.com/source/ and https://help.vivaldi.com/article/is-vivaldi-open-source/

However, it is always iffy since it is based on the Blink engine.

I have primarily older hardware, and it is becoming unfeasible to compile Chromium regularly. I also don't like the reliance on Google. I'm thinking that Midori may really be the only option for me besides Firefox, but I'm still open to suggestions.
_________________
“Truth, like infinity, is to be forever approached but never reached.” --Jean Ayres (1972)
---avatar cropped from =AimanStudio---
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Makersmarx
n00b
n00b


Joined: 16 Feb 2019
Posts: 46
Location: Costa Rica

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a longtime Firefox user, but as of the last 4-6 months have been using Vivaldi for work. I was unable to get FF to work with a service we use to call out to customers sometimes. Anyways, the best part of Vivaldi has got to be the speed dial which imo is the best out there for a landing page. I also enjoy being able to access all of chromes extensions easily, codecs may be included now so no need for https://help.vivaldi.com/article/html5-proprietary-media-on-linux/ (I may be wrong here), but its still much easier then using the codecs from chromium or some overlay . Its my understanding that the folks that created Opera left to create Vivaldi and opera is now owned by a Chinese company so no clue what happens with your data there. Vivaldi also has a beta for Android that runs decently on my old beater phone running Lineage OS.
_________________
Pura Vida
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ant P.
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6690

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vivaldi's source isn't open in any meaningful sense - you can't reproducibly build the browser binary they distribute, it's just a tarball dump of the chromium they use as a backend (aka the bare minimum they can legally get away with doing, in much the same way Apple shafted KDE back in the day).
The webapp UI on top, and any data exfiltration it performs, is all secret sauce and the EULA which forbids reverse-engineering makes that very clear.

If you want a backup browser I'd suggest Midori (or anything else webkit-gtk based; Qt doesn't have any light-weight equivalent). Also Netsurf as an alternative to Dillo.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
axl
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1065
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the web, as we generally call it, or html, is the most used language of the world by a huge margin. like... really really huge. and it's the most unreliable language. still... most popular.

i think, nobody expected that 20 years ago. web browsers that contain a movie player, an audio player, an image viewer, and tones of programming languages.

some might say everything else is just noise, and the web made us just to bootstrap itself. through us.


I don't know what you guys expect from your browsers. I expect it to not bother me with ads, and not share cookies between domains. I feel like chromium with adblock plus and privacy badger from EFF does exactly that. while maintaining a high level of understanding and interpreting the web. movie player. audio player. picture viewer. gps data interpreter. maps. office apps. there's really nothing the browser hasn't been asked to do and didn't do. it's an os in itself. and all the rest are pretending to be like it. :D a joke ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Juippisi
Developer
Developer


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 480
Location: /home

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really liked vivaldi, I used it as my main browser from its birth to ver 2.0. They seem to take privacy pretty seriously and I'd like to trust them on that behalf.

But I had to drop it because it introduced some bugs that didn't get fixed (yes I reported them). And back then getting the h264 video support was a bit painful, although it should work now though ffmpeg[chromium] USE flag.

Been sticking with Firefox since Quantum and really liking it so far. With ryzen it builds in 10-15 minutes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Terry_Davis
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Dec 2019
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ungoogled-chromium & Pale Moon are the most trustworthy I've found.
However, seems like many developers think Pale Moon will quickly become untenable:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22604070
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NathanZachary
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 2504
Location: /home/zach

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had hoped that Midori might be a good replacement for Chromium and backup for Firefox, but it is quite sluggish when rendering most sites. I will continue with migrating to Firefox for most of my needs, but would like a suitable backup browser as well. NetSurf seems to be pretty fast, but obviously it doesn't render more "modern" sites appropriately. Thanks for the recommendations so far!

Cheers,
Nathan Zachary
_________________
“Truth, like infinity, is to be forever approached but never reached.” --Jean Ayres (1972)
---avatar cropped from =AimanStudio---
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ant P.
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6690

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry_Davis wrote:
However, seems like many developers think Pale Moon will quickly become untenable:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22604070

You said "developers" yet you link to "Hacker" "News".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
figueroa
l33t
l33t


Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 676
Location: Lower right-hand corner USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used Vivaldi in place of Chrome or Chromium for over a year. One must trust a bit to even be on the network. I don't use Vivaldi a lot because Firefox fails less and less, but when needed, Vivaldi hasn't failed. As a registered Vivaldi user, I also have a free Vivaldi email address.
_________________
Andy Figueroa
andy@andyfigueroa.net Working with Unix since 1983.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tld
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 1523

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth, I've been very happy for quite some time now with the unofficial palemoon overlay:

https://github.com/deu/palemoon-overlay

It now supports gcc up to 9.2. I've even been managing compiling it on my archaic x86 system, though on that it takes about 13 hours.

Tom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NathanZachary
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 2504
Location: /home/zach

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I'm thinking that I'm going to try to rely as much as possible on Firefox. It seems to meet most of my needs. One thing that I haven't been able to figure out though is why my webcam is available in Google Video calls, but the microphone on it doesn't seem to work in Firefox (though it works in Chromium). Other than that problem, it seems like Firefox will become my main browser with NetSurf and eLinks as backups.
_________________
“Truth, like infinity, is to be forever approached but never reached.” --Jean Ayres (1972)
---avatar cropped from =AimanStudio---
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
figueroa
l33t
l33t


Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 676
Location: Lower right-hand corner USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tld wrote:
For what it's worth, I've been very happy for quite some time now with the unofficial palemoon overlay:

If Palemoon is so great and I should trust it, why isn't it in the standard repository where it might get more oversight and visibility?
_________________
Andy Figueroa
andy@andyfigueroa.net Working with Unix since 1983.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ant P.
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6690

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NathanZachary wrote:
One thing that I haven't been able to figure out though is why my webcam is available in Google Video calls, but the microphone on it doesn't seem to work in Firefox (though it works in Chromium).

In firefox, about:support should show a list of all audio devices it sees. Make sure it's there (and also listed as enabled/preferred, you might need to set it as the default input in the volume mixer if it isn't).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tld
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 1523

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

figueroa wrote:
tld wrote:
For what it's worth, I've been very happy for quite some time now with the unofficial palemoon overlay:

If Palemoon is so great and I should trust it, why isn't it in the standard repository where it might get more oversight and visibility?
To be honest I was wondering the same thing. Note however that, when I first installed from there, which was in August of 2017 (version 27.4.1) it was still a little green. Among other things, you had to set a PALEMOON_ENABLE_UNSUPPORTED_COMPILERS environment to 1 to use essentially any modern compiler. However now it supports up to 9.2. From what I've seen of my recent upgrades, I certainly think it could be in portage in it's current state.

EDIT: It's also worth noting that the Linux version is very actively maintained:

https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=19907&start=20

Tom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zucca
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1803
Location: KUUSANKOSKI, Finland

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick question: Is palemoon unmozzillad-firefox in the same vein as ungoogled-chromium?
_________________
..: Zucca :..

Code:
ERROR: '--failure' is not an option. Aborting...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NathanZachary
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 2504
Location: /home/zach

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
NathanZachary wrote:
One thing that I haven't been able to figure out though is why my webcam is available in Google Video calls, but the microphone on it doesn't seem to work in Firefox (though it works in Chromium).

In firefox, about:support should show a list of all audio devices it sees. Make sure it's there (and also listed as enabled/preferred, you might need to set it as the default input in the volume mixer if it isn't).


So, it seems like the problem is that even though I can select my webcam, I can only select "default" for the microphone (instead of also selecting the webcam as the microphone source from a dropdown menu). This appears to only be related to Firefox, and that there isn't a workaround within the browser. I really would like to avoid setting the webcam as the default microphone in ALSA because I only plug in the webcam when I need to have a video conference. I certainly didn't want to have to keep Chromium just for one task. :x
_________________
“Truth, like infinity, is to be forever approached but never reached.” --Jean Ayres (1972)
---avatar cropped from =AimanStudio---
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Perfect Gentleman
l33t
l33t


Joined: 18 May 2014
Posts: 955

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nope
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Terry_Davis
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Dec 2019
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
Terry_Davis wrote:
However, seems like many developers think Pale Moon will quickly become untenable:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22604070

You said "developers" yet you link to "Hacker" "News".


Fair point. I hate HN. I read it and hate it as I read it at least once per week.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Terry_Davis
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Dec 2019
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zucca wrote:
Quick question: Is palemoon unmozzillad-firefox in the same vein as ungoogled-chromium?


That's the pitch, plus a bit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tld
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 1523

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zucca wrote:
Quick question: Is palemoon unmozzillad-firefox in the same vein as ungoogled-chromium?
I'm not familiar with the latter (and have never even used Chromium) but the Palemoon fork of Firefox is essentially like Firefox before the Mozilla devs started destroying it, and decided that stuff that Firefox users were used to for years didn't matter at all. Among other things it still works with pure alsa. I've been pretty happy with it for sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Moon_%28web_browser%29

EDIT: An added plus is that it compiles with just gcc and doesn't require that Godless rust BS.

Tom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NathanZachary
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 2504
Location: /home/zach

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you detail what you mean by Pale Moon working with "pure alsa"? I'm guessing that somewhere along the line, Firefox started requiring something else as an abstraction layer? I'm fighting with it regarding input/output devices for sound & video.
_________________
“Truth, like infinity, is to be forever approached but never reached.” --Jean Ayres (1972)
---avatar cropped from =AimanStudio---
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RoGeorge
n00b
n00b


Joined: 13 Mar 2020
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another vote for Pale Moon for having a working hardware video decoding support. Can play full screen 4K/60Hz youtube videos with Pale Moon, but not with Firefox. (nVidia driver and 'media.hardware-video-decoding.force-enabled' set to true in both browser's 'about:config' page)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Terry_Davis
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Dec 2019
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone test 120hz+ functionality in various browsers?
This seems to be the go-to tool:https://www.testufo.com/
Don't be fooled by their default message - since currently Linux distros do have bad support - it doesn't mean this isn't a valid tool to test with.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum