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C1REX
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:24 am    Post subject: -native - vs amd64 Reply with quote

I understand there were always plenty of questions about gentoo performance but I'm coming back to Gentoo and Linux after a long break.

Are there any benchmarks or results showing any performance gains when compiling with -native flag on let say modern Ryzens/Threadrippers vs just default -amd64?

I'm talking performance in a sense of better FPS/calculations/renders/compiling time and not about size of packages and Ram usage.
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C1REX
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd-znver2-gcc9&num=1


I've got it. x86-64 vs native CPU optimisation for 3900x.

Spoiler alert: gentoo can compile slightly faster software than pre compiled distros.
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vovan47
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, whole life of many gentoo zealots who used it because of PERFOMANCE turned up to be a lie. :lol:
Better remove this thread to prevent suicides :lol:
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C1REX
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vovan47 wrote:
Wow, whole life of many gentoo zealots who used it because of PERFOMANCE turned up to be a lie. :lol:
Better remove this thread to prevent suicides :lol:



The benchmark suggest that in some cases you can get huge performance boosts just by using -march=native alone

Use flags trim the system making it lighter and more snappy bu a fair bit.


So no. Gentoo performance is not a myth.
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Zucca
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C1REX wrote:
So no. Gentoo performance is not a myth.
It really depends on package and the programming language used.
For example one would think compiling x264 and x265 with -O3 or -Ofast would yield to better encoding speed... But no. The most intensive parts have been coded in x86 assembly. AFAIK there's no compler (other than the coder itself) that can optimize assembly any further. ;)

Of course there's another side to the coin where applications do benefit greatly from compiler optimizations.

I have env files made for few packages to use different compiler settings.

I'm not a Gentoo user because of performance. I'm Gentoo user because with Gentoo I can make my own distro. I have the choice. Gentoo is all about choice.

For example, earlier I switched to systemd from sysvinit+OpenRC (only to realize systemd wasn't ready yet). Later I switched back. While it isn't an easy process, it's way more easier than on other distros (non-gentoo based ones at least, and maybe on debian).

One another obvious reason for me to use Gentoo is USE-flags.

Then there's easy downgrading of packages. Or rather support for it. Something that's not officially supported in Arch Linux for example.

Lastly Gentoo is a rolling distro with stable and unstable packages.

To name few things I don't particularly like: python mess and portage relying on python. Luckily most operations are reasonably fast with portage or by using the helper tools.
Another is the ebuild writing. It can seem way too complex for newcomers. But most of it is necessary to be able to be flexible with all the use-flags archs and so on.
Also kernel configuration and compiling to newcomers might be a showstopper. It seems that there are now efforts to provide preconfigured (even precompiled) kernels.

So yeah. I didn't come to Gentoo (twice) because of performance benefits.
If I were to look for pure performance, I'd be running Clear Linux.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being old and cynical, I'll suggest that all benchmarks tell you is how good your system is at executing benchmarks.

I'll temper that by suggesting that benchmarks allow you to compare some aspects of different systems but there is a world of difference between benchmark performance and real world performance.
Be careful what you read into benchmark results.
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Zucca
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
Being old and cynical, I'll suggest that all benchmarks tell you is how good your system is at executing benchmarks.
So much this. Exactly. Also the part about old and cynical too; I'm one too. :P
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C1REX
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm old but less cynical.

After 18 years I'm happy to learn that there is potentially a performance boost - even if marginal and only for running benchmarks.

I'm relieved from social pressure forcing me to say that i don't use gentoo for performance boost. I like the fact that gentoo can do benchmarks better :)
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

-march=native may be counterproductive on some workloads; for Zen you probably want to add -mno-bmi2: http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=72538
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C1REX
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
-march=native may be counterproductive on some workloads; for Zen you probably want to add -mno-bmi2: http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=72538



Thanks for pointing this out as there is already discussion on reddit about native flag. It seems that native doesn't always detects your CPU and you just added another potential problem :)
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