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Is Gentoo prepared for the imminent .ORG TLD price scalping?
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:27 am    Post subject: Is Gentoo prepared for the imminent .ORG TLD price scalping? Reply with quote

Nepotism ahoy

The gentoo.org domain only seems to have a lease up until 2021, while this disaster is possibly coming as soon as January. Obviously this is going to hit just about every distro, but I'm not seeing any signals at all about it here.
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e3k
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it is not April the 1st. is this a hoax?
girlscouts??? really?
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pjp
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol

'cause people once complained about the US controlling it.

I'll be curious to see how brand ownership works. If major entities won't pay ridiculous prices, will someone be allowed to squat?
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spork_kitty
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've said this elsewhere: distributed DNS when?

Route around this retardation.
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e3k
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
lol

'cause people once complained about the US controlling it.

I'll be curious to see how brand ownership works. If major entities won't pay ridiculous prices, will someone be allowed to squat?

well there are cases where domains are sold to the GreedCorp. My country did the same. In this case i just evade to some other domain with no sorrow.
Also US could sell it with saying the price should be equal or lower. But it did not.

@spork_kitty: there is still the possibility to resort to static IPs.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

e3k wrote:
i just evade to some other domain with no sorrow.
Which is fine, but doesn't address the issue. I'd do the same, but I don't have anything of value parked on .org.

e3k wrote:
Also US could sell it with saying the price should be equal or lower. But it did not.
I'm not sure what you're referring to, but I don't believe a permanent "equal or lower" limitation would be legally binding.
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Hu
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if the "equal or lower" clause was only valid for 99 years? ;) I've seen "leases" with terms that long, which may as well be a sale since nobody alive to see the transaction start is likely to still be around when it expires.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think clauses for x years are uncommon, but a buyer agrees to those. "No layoffs for 2 years" or whatnot. But those are terms the buyer agrees to because it is of enough benefit to the buyer. I'd be curious to see legal precedent for a monoploy that engages in price gouging. People didn't like it with pharmaceuticals.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
I'm not sure what you're referring to, but I don't believe a permanent "equal or lower" limitation would be legally binding.

i was reffering to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_agreement
but if US would do that it would probably get less for the .org sale.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, thanks for the link. The ISoc isn't a US government entity, so it isn't something the "US" would or could do. The ISoc probably sold it to make money, so a "vertical agreement" wouldn't seem to make much sense. As governments may approve or not approve mergers and acquisitions, I wonder if any will or can step in to try and block the sale. I don't have a problem with the sale, but I'll be curious to see if any countries object to a possible progressive fee model.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in my economics study i was told in a true competition the gains = 0. so probably if ietf.org would make a comment about this there would be a 0 domain for all the stuff that matters. shell i write an RFC about this?
edit: did a quick research at ietf and nobody did write and RFC about this who will be first. shell i make a poll? ---follow me to the sticky thread.
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szatox
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
in my economics study i was told in a true competition the gains = 0

I wonder in what scenario and how it's defined (and measured), since a free market economy is a positive sum game.

Now, I think it's a good opportunity to ask "who owns the internet?" and "what would it take to pull the plug"?
I mean, on one hand it's all decentralized, redundant and whatnot, and then we have a bunch of US companies "renting" IPs, TLDs, ASN, and the list probably goes on. "Renting" is the key word here, since we only have as much control over our domains as the owners of higher level domains give us. And many domains gain a lot of value after the initial registration.
Trying to abuse that by raising prices could be fatal for that TLD, but the temptation is surely there.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

e3k wrote:
in my economics study i was told in a true competition the gains = 0
This and "vertical agreement" sounds like a different economic system than the one relevant to the sale of .org.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
e3k wrote:
in my economics study i was told in a true competition the gains = 0
This and "vertical agreement" sounds like a different economic system than the one relevant to the sale of .org.


szatox it does not exist. that is purely speculative model which says where capitalism can be best. but in reality there are rip offs be it kartels or corporations manipulating the law.

pjp yes it is now irrelevant as it has been sold without such agreement. yesterday i was so wasted that i almost wrote to ietf. man that would be a blamage.

what about an RFC like this?:

hardcode this IPs to this DNS list:
gentoo.org
ietf.org
debian.org
suckless.org
...(feel free to continue)...

as we do not want these important projects which are a part of the INTERNET project be affected by economy instability such as speculative domain price manipulations.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

e3k,

That's how the very early internet worked.

If there is enough incentive there could be a distributed ghost DNS using the well known names, rather like the TCP well known ports.
The names would expire at the registry and might even be resold but the distributed ghost DNS would continue to work.
It would have the effect of devaluing the registered entries that clashed with ghost DNS. That would limit the registered name value.

Everyone put
Code:
gentoo.org
ietf.org
debian.org
suckless.org
...(feel free to continue)...
in /etc/hosts.
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e3k
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:

Everyone put
Code:
gentoo.org
ietf.org
debian.org
suckless.org
...(feel free to continue)...
in /etc/hosts.

are the IPs static? what about putting that in your local DNS server? that way you would have some peers to build up the p2p DNS that was mentioned before.
who controls the INTERNET anyway?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

e3k,

Gentoo IP addresses are static but not fixed.
They are assigned to the donors that donate hardware to Gentoo, so they do change from time to time.
Donors change, rotate hardware etc.

As you say, /etc/hosts is not a good idea.
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e3k
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
e3k,

Gentoo IP addresses are static but not fixed.
They are assigned to the donors that donate hardware to Gentoo, so they do change from time to time.
Donors change, rotate hardware etc.

As you say, /etc/hosts is not a good idea.

well if hacking the RFCs is not an option than i would say the projects should buy 2 static IPs and run their own DNS on that. how much would that cost / how many members would it have is still to be calculated.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

e3k,

As in run our own top level domain?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
e3k,

As in run our own top level domain?
probably yes. lets move all the stuff to some new location. that seems to be the least resistance approach. and i am not talking now about gentoo only.
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bunder
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

is buying a .com really that bad? i just shifted away from .ca because they're overpriced.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

google: how to buy a top level domain
Quote:
To get your own TLD, you need to submit a completed, detailed application and fee (likely around $200,000) to ICANN. Then, ICANN will evaluate the application (and Afilias can help with this). If approved, you can proceed to launching with domain registrars


So it seams that all needed to be done is to write a nice letter why this is needed and why they should make the fee = 1$ and then hope for the best.

here a list of existing TLDs: http://data.iana.org/TLD/tlds-alpha-by-domain.txt
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Jimmy Jazz
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People could switch to openNIC https://www.opennic.org/ for instance ... It is still alive.
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