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patrix_neo
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asturm wrote:
patrix_neo wrote:
asturm wrote:
patrix_neo wrote:
they can deport a frick-load of money bleeders.

If that were true, they could do that already. But they would quickly learn that there is no one left to fix their toilettes, drive their buses or nurse their parents.

What is easy? Seing your life slowly going down the drain, heading that steady path to the ruin? Or take a leap of faith and "fight" for a better tomorrow?

They've consistently voted for governments that ran down their country, keep the blame where it is justified.


According to the people, there is obviously an alternative option - Brexit. That is within democratical means.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patrix_neo wrote:
According to the people, there is obviously an alternative option - Brexit. That is within democratical means.

...there are several answers to that, but most importantly, no one actually defined Brexit ('easiest deal ever', they said; 'of course we keep access to single market', they said; ...) when it was voted on, and the current government just goes for the most extreme interpretation when that was never democratically legitimised even if they try to construe that as hard as they can. 'Brexit means Brexit' was probably the dumbest thing ever to leave T.May's mouth.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some kick-ass EU-confusion. Democracy in works makes head go dizzy. EU-rep: We need more confusion gas here!
(astrum parachutes down as a trooper of EU)
-"Here's a pamplet explainis it all - Do not forget to watch Handmaids tale"
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asturm wrote:
Boris Johnson has now lost 6/6 (one hundred percent) parliamentary votes
Thus proving what hypocrites parliament is because they won't vote on no confidence or approve the snap election. The thing they are supposed to do if the majority oppose the government.

Frankly their disrespect to the process and the voters is quite appalling.
asturm wrote:
and a court has unanimously found that he misled the Queen about prorogation of Parliament.
A court also ruled that requiring black students to attend a more distant segregated school was legal under the US constitution. A ruling overturned on appeal. (Brown v. Board of Education)

Just because one court wants to overstep doesn't mean the higher court will agree. Wouldn't you agree?
asturm wrote:
Will he claim worst foreign minister of all times, shortest and weakest PM all in the same person?
He lost votes. He is not weak. The fact that remain is running around like chickens with their heads cut off threatening to impeach or imprison him proves that he does have an enormous amount of power and influence. They can't seem to figure out how they will enforce their surrender law, or if it is indeed enforceable. They also refuse to call an election because they know they will lose. That is a strong PM. He holds a minority and the overwhelming majority won't touch him even when he offers a fair electoral fight.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
asturm wrote:
Boris Johnson has now lost 6/6 (one hundred percent) parliamentary votes
Thus proving what hypocrites parliament is because they won't vote on no confidence or approve the snap election. The thing they are supposed to do if the majority oppose the government.

Frankly their disrespect to the process and the voters is quite appalling.
Respect the sovereignty of Westminster parliament, which is the essence of the british constitutional system! BoJo had unconstitutionally prorogated parliament. Now it is their turn to take special measure.
asturm wrote:
and a court has unanimously found that he misled the Queen about prorogation of Parliament.
Which I supposed is the case some days ago. The second precedent of such a kind would change the british system to a more powerful UK prime minister. Then Naib called me a constant liar.
@asturm, our little Brexit propaganda army is typically arguing like all the extreme right these days:
1. Rule and Law - Rule and Law - Rule and Law
2. But that court is crazy
asturm wrote:
Will he claim worst foreign minister of all times, shortest and weakest PM all in the same person?
No, both - BoJo and the EU - will agree to add a tiny, little sentence:
Quote:
In case the Backstop takes place, Great Britain is allowed to limit the ruling of EU norms and customs union to the area of Northern Ireland.
When Tories are not the patriots they claim, but neglect the will of scotish people, why should they care about the DUP ?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
...

Show me proof that EU plans to blockade UK or steal UK assets

And citing the rule of law is now right win :lol:
Soo much better than Labour singing the red flag in the house of common like good little Marxist ....
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What the heck?! That doesn't even make sense!
Quote:
Respect the sovereignty of Westminster parliament, which is the essence of the british constitutional system! BoJo had unconstitutionally prorogated parliament. Now it is their turn to take special measure.
Parliament is not a foreign country or sovereign nation. They have no sovereignty. They are an integrated part of an entire political system.

The prorogation is not illegal at all. On appeal it will be overturned. Prorogation is the power of the monarch and above judicial review. I didn't write the rules. The court even said that it wasn't illegal at all. They claim that Johnson's advice to the queen was. No way that will hold up since that is his job.

Of course, your nonsense doesn't address the underlying issue. If parliament disproves of the PM they can call a vote of no confidence or approve a snap election. They have not used their remedy for the current situation. They are in violation of the constitution if anyone is.

This really underlines the fact that you admitted you did not understand UK law, had no interest in learning it, and demand that UK law conform to your personal expectations of it. Why don't you either learn about UK law or stop commenting on it?
Quote:
The second precedent of such a kind would change the british system to a more powerful UK prime minister. Then Naib called me a constant liar.
And he is right. This is normal operation of the government. No precedent has been set at all, except by one activist court. We will wait for the results of Tuesday's proceedings to see your reaction when you are again proven wrong.
Quote:
When Tories are not the patriots they claim, but neglect the will of scotish people, why should they care about the DUP ?
You mean the more than 50% who support leaving the EU? A bit more than 50% voted to remain in 2016 and about half of all remain voters support leaving as stipulated by the referendum because they value the rule of law.

Make no mistake. The court ruling does not reflect the will of the people. Claiming that a court ruling does because that is how the court ruled is ludicrous. Courts are supposed to stop the majority from imposing their will on a minority in violation of their rights.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Scottish court finds against the auld enemies prime minister.
That's a surprise.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
A Scottish court finds against the auld enemies prime minister.
That's a surprise.
The Scottish (uups, missed tt) judges are educated differently?
Maybe the whole concept of Law and Order was never working then?
Seriously: The BoJo had to send three times his lawyers to convince Buckingham Palace the Queen should allow that prorogation.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
What the heck?! That doesn't even make sense!
Quote:
Respect the sovereignty of Westminster parliament, which is the essence of the british constitutional system! BoJo had unconstitutionally prorogated parliament. Now it is their turn to take special measure.
Parliament is not a foreign country or sovereign nation. They have no sovereignty. They are an integrated part of an entire political system.

The prorogation is not illegal at all. On appeal it will be overturned.
Read the fucking Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_sovereignty_in_the_United_Kingdom#Core_theory

Quote:
Many states have sovereign legislatures, including the United Kingdom,[1] Finland,[2] the Netherlands,[2] New Zealand,[2] Sweden,[2] Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Barbados, Jamaica, Papua New Guinea, Israel, and the Solomon Islands.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich,

Unless you have lived in the UK, what you are missing is that the UK is at least four countries at an uneasy peace.
When push comes to shove, its not united at all.

There is a long history of warfare, sometimes open, between the parts of the UK. Particularly between England and Scotland, hence the term auld enemy used in Scotland to refer to the English.
Its therefore no surprise to see a Scottish court finding against an English prime minister.

We can add to the mix that close to 50% of the population of Scotland would like to leave the UK. About as many as voted remain in the breixit referendum.

This Scottish court judgement is just the continuation of warfare by other means.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a lot of noise about the case being lost in Scotland and how Boris should now return ...

Lets put this into perspective. Three cases were filed in three high courts ( posted here https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-8366366.html#8366366)

* In the High Court of Justice, Westminster, for an urgent judicial review on the legality of the use of the royal prerogative, by Gina Miller;[31]
* In the Court of Session, Edinburgh, for breach of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 and the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, by 75 MPs led by Joanna Cherry;[30]
* In the High Court, Northern Ireland, for breach of the Good Friday Agreement, by Raymond McCord;[32]


Lets see what actually happened
30th August: Scottish judge rejects temporary ban on Parliament shutdown
4th September: Boris’s planned prorogation of Parliament is lawful, says judge at the highest court in Scotland.
6th September: Miller lost her case in England
11th September: Edinburgh Court of Session has ruled prorogation Parliament unlawful on appeal. Scotland
13th September: Northern Irish high court rules Hard brexit does not break Belfast agreement. N.Ireland

Why is this significant? Multiple courts following different angles have found it lawful (except the last one from Scotland, ill get back to that).l The N.Irish one was key as it was based upon the Good friday agreement. Hard brexit and the GFA was the hard stance the remainers and the EU was taking on why the UK couldn't just leave and why the backstop was needed.
Well that is now out of the window and if the EU wants a deal they now need todo something. https://judiciaryni.uk/sites/judiciary/files/decisions/McCord%20%28Raymond%29%2C%20JR83%20and%20Jamie%20Waring%27s%20Applications%20v%20the%20Prime%20Minister%20and%20others.pdf

Now the Scotland one is interesting. Three attempts and the third one went the way of remain. However... how did it pass. The reason the case was brought in Scotland is that Scottish law differs hugely from English and Welsh law, particularly over constitutional matters. something which unconstitutional can also be unlawful in Scotland, even if held to be lawful by High Court in London
https://www.scribd.com/document/425381951/Scottish-High-Court-Prorogation-Ruling#download&from_embed

The reason the most recent attempt in scotland went in favour of remain was because Scotland can deem what laws it does not like, coming back to what Neddy said. Any law passed in Westminster would fail in Scotland due to this law.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/11/mps-used-300-year-old-scottish-law-passed-crown-william-orange/

The real test is the supreme court case next week.



The true threat no leaving is this stupid surrender bill and also the Speaker who has come out and stated he will do anything to stop noDeal ( https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/john-bercow-vows-to-stop-boris-johnson-implementing-no-deal-brexit/ar-AAHffeT) This is a partisan hack. He speaker is meant to be independent, he is meant to ensure that Parliament's power is not ignored. Time and time again the speaker has abused his power to push his views


Anyway... EU don't seem impressed with an extension, nothing new has been tabled
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Anyway... EU don't seem impressed with an extension, nothing new has been tabled



Yet - wait for it, something is coming.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
Naib wrote:
Anyway... EU don't seem impressed with an extension, nothing new has been tabled



Yet - wait for it, something is coming.

Totally agree ... They are politicans at the end of the day.
As I said many pages ago I suspect at the last minute (Oct 14) the EU will come back and drop the backstop, Boris will jump on it claim he has sealed a massive concession and Mays deal (which is still a horrendous deal) will pass.

This is more likely now than ever since with a N.Ireland court ruling noDeal doesn't violate GFA, thus the backstop isn't needed with said deal.

I have already posted why the deal is bad and there is soo many things wrong with it
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
13th September: Northern Irish high court rules Hard brexit does not break Belfast agreement. N.Ireland

Quote:
This is more likely now than ever since with a N.Ireland court ruling noDeal doesn't violate GFA, thus the backstop isn't needed with said deal.

That is a lie. The judge rejected to judge about it. So,therefore you won't find any reasoning, why the GFA is not touched by No-Deal Exit.


Quote:
The true threat no leaving is this stupid surrender bill and also the Speaker who has come out and stated he will do anything to stop noDeal. This is a partisan hack. He speaker is meant to be independent, he is meant to ensure that Parliament's power is not ignored.
Can someone tell me, what the Speaker should do "to ensure that Parliament's power is not ignored". What are his partisan hacks? Is he a terrorist now?

@Naib, surely I look into everything you do post here now.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"that's a lie" LMAO. I posted the judges rules :lol: :lol: :lol: how can a judge's ruling that a noDeal Brexit doesnt violate the GFA be a lie :lol: :lol: :lol:
You really have zero understanding or respect for laws...

Quote:

“While I appreciate the laudable intentions with which
the back stop was designed, by removing control of such
large areas of the commercial and economic life of
Northern Ireland to an external body over which the
people of Northern Ireland have no democratic control,
this balance risks being undermined. The Belfast (Good
Friday) Agreement neither depends upon nor requires a
particular customs or regulatory regime. The broader
commitments in the Agreement, including to parity of
esteem, partnership, democracy and to peaceful means of
resolving differences, can best be met if we explore
solutions other than the back stop”.


But please go on ulenrich, who knows more about N.Irish law than a judge in a N.Irish court :lol: :lol:

https://news.yahoo.com/northern-irish-court-no-deal-101836854.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGLz3Dmfw-eUOgzYc_nE42zPwVboi7acJyJPBB3Lts7L5dwKiWJ0uY-psRsbsmVErgd0p1UfxMZt1k19mQKjMVoaS-vEBgSD9-r9Q41VIzq4QCvLqbI0EYqmEYcHhURQPCHOiNxk2COyf6amfDrMxxmB_pdDHf-3pExS4rWsny-3
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/12/uk/northern-ireland-brexit-prorogue-intl/index.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/12/belfast-court-dismisses-third-legal-challenge-brexit-unmistakably/
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/northern-ireland-court-throws-out-brexit-challenge/ar-AAHb5LG?li=AAeKimm
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/northern-ireland-court-throws-out-brexit-challenge/ar-AAHb5LG?li=AAeKimm
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2019-09-12/northern-irish-no-deal-brexit-challenge-dismissed-in-court
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't the Northen Irish have a day of purge? Just out boxing eachother yellow and blue? I saw the interview with Tim Pool. When he did a one with a N.Irish girl, she told him, that's so. {looking at Muso and Arnvidr with utter fear}
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patrix_neo wrote:
Don't the Northen Irish have a day of purge? Just out boxing eachother yellow and blue? I saw the interview with Tim Pool. When he did a one with a N.Irish girl, she told him, that's so. {looking at Muso and Arnvidr with utter fear}


Are you on about the twelfth? :-?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrbassie wrote:
patrix_neo wrote:
Don't the Northen Irish have a day of purge? Just out boxing eachother yellow and blue? I saw the interview with Tim Pool. When he did a one with a N.Irish girl, she told him, that's so. {looking at Muso and Arnvidr with utter fear}


Are you on about the twelfth? :-?


Boxingday is out. Boxing is in. If you can confirm it, the better for science.
Didn't really check it out, but about here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=venN_ADe9m0

July 12. I got it!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The individual with an identity knows their stuff.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
"that's a lie" LMAO. I posted the judges rules :lol: :lol: :lol: how can a judge's ruling that a noDeal Brexit doesnt violate the GFA be a lie :lol: :lol: :lol:
You really have zero understanding or respect for laws...

Quote:

“While I appreciate the laudable intentions with which
the back stop was designed, by removing control of such
large areas of the commercial and economic life of
Northern Ireland to an external body over which the
people of Northern Ireland have no democratic control,
this balance risks being undermined. The Belfast (Good
Friday) Agreement neither depends upon nor requires a
particular customs or regulatory regime. The broader
commitments in the Agreement, including to parity of
esteem, partnership, democracy and to peaceful means of
resolving differences, can best be met if we explore
solutions other than the back stop”.


But please go on ulenrich, who knows more about N.Irish law than a judge in a N.Irish court :lol: :lol:

You don't give the exact source, mine:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-49676133
Quote:
The court heard arguments that a no-deal would have a negative effect on the peace process and endanger the Good Friday Agreement.

But the judge said the main aspects of the case were "inherently and unmistakeably political".


https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/12/uk/northern-ireland-brexit-prorogue-intl/index.html
Quote:
Lord Justice Bernard McCloskey made the ruling on a trio of cases, which contended that Johnson's hardline no-deal Brexit strategy would damage the Good Friday Agreement that brought peace to Northern Ireland. That deal, signed in 1998, helped end decades of bloody sectarian violence in which more than 3,000 people died.
The government rejected that argument during two days of legal proceedings in Belfast High Court, PA reported.
"I consider the characterisation of the subject matter of these proceedings as inherently and unmistakably political to be beyond plausible dispute," McCloskey said in his written ruling, PA news agency reported.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/legal-challenge-to-british-brexit-strategy-dismissed-in-belfast-1.4015929
Quote:
However, Lord Justice McCloskey, in a 68-page judgment, rejected the applications. He found the Brexit issue essentially was a political matter and referred to the “boundary” between the legal and the governmental.

“I consider the characterisation of the subject matter of these proceedings as inherently and unmistakably political to be beyond plausible dispute,” he said.


Why should a judge think in detail about Brexit, when he dismisses the idea it is his domain to judge about?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something worth watching. This guy seems to know what he is talking about.

Is this the way round the Brexit 'Surrender Act'?!
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
Naib wrote:
"that's a lie" LMAO. I posted the judges rules :lol: :lol: :lol: how can a judge's ruling that a noDeal Brexit doesnt violate the GFA be a lie :lol: :lol: :lol:
You really have zero understanding or respect for laws...

Quote:

“While I appreciate the laudable intentions with which
the back stop was designed, by removing control of such
large areas of the commercial and economic life of
Northern Ireland to an external body over which the
people of Northern Ireland have no democratic control,
this balance risks being undermined. The Belfast (Good
Friday) Agreement neither depends upon nor requires a
particular customs or regulatory regime. The broader
commitments in the Agreement, including to parity of
esteem, partnership, democracy and to peaceful means of
resolving differences, can best be met if we explore
solutions other than the back stop”.


But please go on ulenrich, who knows more about N.Irish law than a judge in a N.Irish court :lol: :lol:

You don't give the exact source, mine:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-49676133
Quote:
The court heard arguments that a no-deal would have a negative effect on the peace process and endanger the Good Friday Agreement.

But the judge said the main aspects of the case were "inherently and unmistakeably political".


https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/12/uk/northern-ireland-brexit-prorogue-intl/index.html
Quote:
Lord Justice Bernard McCloskey made the ruling on a trio of cases, which contended that Johnson's hardline no-deal Brexit strategy would damage the Good Friday Agreement that brought peace to Northern Ireland. That deal, signed in 1998, helped end decades of bloody sectarian violence in which more than 3,000 people died.
The government rejected that argument during two days of legal proceedings in Belfast High Court, PA reported.
"I consider the characterisation of the subject matter of these proceedings as inherently and unmistakably political to be beyond plausible dispute," McCloskey said in his written ruling, PA news agency reported.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/legal-challenge-to-british-brexit-strategy-dismissed-in-belfast-1.4015929
Quote:
However, Lord Justice McCloskey, in a 68-page judgment, rejected the applications. He found the Brexit issue essentially was a political matter and referred to the “boundary” between the legal and the governmental.

“I consider the characterisation of the subject matter of these proceedings as inherently and unmistakably political to be beyond plausible dispute,” he said.


Why should a judge think in detail about Brexit, when he dismisses the idea it is his domain to judge about?

How did I not give the exact source oO I posted the judges writeup. You have posted editorials
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ulenrich
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
How did I not give the exact source oO I posted the judges writeup. You have posted editorials

All of the editorials pretty much quote the judge wordly:
Quote:
“I consider the characterisation of the subject matter of these proceedings as inherently and unmistakably political to be beyond plausible dispute,” he said.

"unmistakably political to be beyond plausible dispute" is not something to say, when you have "judged" about it.
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Last edited by ulenrich on Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:20 am; edited 2 times in total
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Naib
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
Naib wrote:
How did I not give the exact source oO I posted the judges writeup. You have posted editorials

All of the editorials pretty much quote the judge wordly:
Quote:
“I consider the characterisation of the subject matter of these proceedings as inherently and unmistakably political to be beyond plausible dispute,” he said.

"unmistakably political to be beyond plausible dispute" is not something to say, when you have "judged" about it.

Again...
This is what you wrote
ulenrich wrote:
You don't give the exact source


I provided a direct link to the judiciary of Northern Ireland. HOW is this not the exact source
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