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juniper
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Please point me to the video that shows Trump claiming all, or most illegals are committing rape.


why mention rape and mexicans unless you want to highlight it?

Quote:
Dude. You were proven wrong, and instead of admitting it, you are now arguing over semantics.


Trump is brilliant. See how he has you saying where did he say all mexicans? why mention it with regards to mexicans unless 1) you have proof that there is a higher rate and 2) it is in fact higher?

by the way, how did we get to illegal immigration?

you can see tons of videos on youtube. FYI, I came across a video where Trump claimed, if elected, he would deport 11m illegal aliens. how is that going?
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asturm
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They know he's not racist. Their dear leader told them so.
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The Doctor
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
ulenrich wrote:
The mexican guy is not obliged to know U.S. laws.
If the Mexican guy crosses the boarder then he absolutely is. Would you accept the argument that a Muslim immigrant is allowed to rape young girls until he is informed that it is illegal? Because raping non-Muslims isn't exactly a crime where some of these guys come from.

The rapist is doing his criminal action in the country.
But there is no moment in time an immigrant is criminal doing his immigration step into the country.
Haven't you been paying attention? That act of putting their foot on the ground is illegal full stop.

ulenrich wrote:
But this step was declared criminal by eastern european contries during Cold War time. And still it is criminal doing for every guy in North Korea doing his step into freedom. And for every turkish considered a member of "Fethullah Gülen".
Illegal in the country of exit, not entry. But you seem to imply they could ban people leaving but not arriving? That makes no sense...

ulenrich wrote:
The criminalization of immigration by no means can be considered a legislation of a proper
Rechtsstaat or in your terms
Rule of Law
Dude, it is perfectly consistent with the rule of law. Countries have been controlling immigration for centuries.
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ulenrich
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
Haven't you been paying attention? That act of putting their foot on the ground is illegal full stop.
...
Dude, it is perfectly consistent with the rule of law. Countries have been controlling immigration for centuries.

I am not discussing U.S. laws here. Nor do I argue against countries controlling immigrations. Also I acknowledge the way an immigrant is crossing the border can be criminal for example when killing was involved.

But simply running across the line between countries cannot make any human being a criminal. The jump from Mexico to the U.S. was done in Mexico. The immigrant had only to follow mexican laws at that time. When landing in the U.S. the action called immigration was done. There is no point in time the criminal act of immigration was done.

This time frame at a location a judge must see to decide a human being is a criminal.
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asturm
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not a crime, it is a misdemeanor. And since authorities have been closing legal ports of entries, effectively denying rights of due process for asylum seekers, it could make for interesting court cases.
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The Doctor
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
But simply running across the line between countries cannot make any human being a criminal.
Do you really have absolutely no idea what you are talking about? Yes it is a crime to cross the boarder without permission. That is how laws work.

It is clear you have no idea what you are talking about and simply spewing nonsense in the hope of sounding intelligent.
Quote:
...effectively denying rights of due process for asylum seekers
There is no such right to either apply or be granted an asylum so that case is easy.
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juniper
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Please point me to the video that shows Trump claiming all, or most illegals are committing rape.


here is a video. top link on youtube if you search "trump mexicans rape".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jaz1J0s-cL4

So, what's the point of what he is saying exactly? It's bigoted and insulting at the very least, so presumably he has some evidence to back up his claims. Of course, he doesn't mention this, because he knows his audience doesn't care for it. he is virtue signalling. he is so good at getting americans to take their eyes off the ball.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plenty of prominent Democrat politicians have claimed support* for addressing the illegal immigration problem, so I guess they're racists too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5oKlKeXWLQ

That's Obama. I'm pretty sure at least one of the Clinton's did as well, and other senior members of congress.

* it typically seems to be in name only, but they at least made the statements.
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asturm
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@pjp: I didn't think you would so tone-deaf as to make that comparison. That's disappointing.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asturm wrote:
@pjp: I didn't think you would so tone-deaf as to make that comparison. That's disappointing.


indeed. Interesting, because I am also against illegal immigration.

There is a difference between being against illegal immigration, and spouting unsupported sweeping claims about mexicans. you don't need to think mexicans are rapists to be against illegal immigration.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asturm wrote:
@pjp: I didn't think you would so tone-deaf as to make that comparison. That's disappointing.
Which comparison?
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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
There is a difference between being against illegal immigration, and spouting unsupported sweeping claims about mexicans. you don't need to think mexicans are rapists to be against illegal immigration.
The comments are about a well known problem. People choose to impart their view on the statements. I heard the statement to be an indictment of the criminals who enter the US illegally and the lack of meaningful results on addressing the problem. Certain people choose to add "flavor" to a statement that was not made. Very disappointing to see it spread so throroughly by reactionary politics among the left.
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roki942
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gentooP4 wrote:
I'm surprised I can't see a topic about this atrocity.

50 people killed going about their lawful business in a peaceful country by a self confessed white supremacist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchurch_mosque_shootings

Youngest victim who was only 2 years old has just been released from hospital thankfully - his father is still in bad shape having shielded his son from the bullets.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111549394/youngest-victim-of-christchurch-mosque-attacks-released-from-hospital

NZ has been in mourning for over a week now but the people have come together in amazing ways to support their Muslim communities.


Seems what's missing in the over all picture are Muslims coming together in amazing ways to support their Muslim communities.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/is-claims-deadly-kabul-suicide-attack/ar-AAFWMle?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ulenrich wrote:
But simply running across the line between countries cannot make any human being a criminal.

What about crossing the border into my house uninvited?
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juniper
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
juniper wrote:
There is a difference between being against illegal immigration, and spouting unsupported sweeping claims about mexicans. you don't need to think mexicans are rapists to be against illegal immigration.
The comments are about a well known problem. People choose to impart their view on the statements. I heard the statement to be an indictment of the criminals who enter the US illegally and the lack of meaningful results on addressing the problem. Certain people choose to add "flavor" to a statement that was not made. Very disappointing to see it spread so throroughly by reactionary politics among the left.


he wasn't being subtle. I am taking his statement at face value. I am not adding flavour.
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
juniper wrote:
There is a difference between being against illegal immigration, and spouting unsupported sweeping claims about mexicans. you don't need to think mexicans are rapists to be against illegal immigration.
The comments are about a well known problem. People choose to impart their view on the statements. I heard the statement to be an indictment of the Democrat base who enter the US illegally and the lack of meaningful results on addressing the problem. Certain people choose to add "flavor" to a statement that was not made. Very disappointing to see it spread so throroughly by reactionary politics among the left.


FTFY.
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Old School
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
asturm wrote:
@pjp: I didn't think you would so tone-deaf as to make that comparison. That's disappointing.


indeed. Interesting, because I am also against illegal immigration.

There is a difference between being against illegal immigration, and spouting unsupported sweeping claims about mexicans. you don't need to think mexicans are rapists to be against illegal immigration.
What is the quote that you believe is a "sweeping claim?"
Are you saying that no illegal immigrant from Mexico ever raped someone in the US? Or are you saying that not enough rapes have occurred for it to be an issue? If that is the case, how many rapes on an annual basis would it take to be an issue?
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juniper
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
What is the quote that you believe is a "sweeping claim?"
Are you saying that no illegal immigrant from Mexico ever raped someone in the US? Or are you saying that not enough rapes have occurred for it to be an issue? If that is the case, how many rapes on an annual basis would it take to be an issue?


This is the dance that apologists of Trump's unsubstantiated claims do.

Of course there are rapists from Mexico. Of course some of them are illegal. If that's his only point, why mention it? Some american citizens are also rapists. Why not say some legal immigrants are rapists? white legal immigrants are rapists? That's true too.

As to your second question, I don't know how many rapes have occurred by illegal immigrants (or legal ones, remember, it's not clear what he is talking about). What's clear is he doesn't know (or he certainly isn't telling us he does). he is, to my point, just talking to his echo chamber.

So focusing on that and picking it out amongst all the facts in the world is implicitly making the claim that it's peculiarly high in that group. Or not because I don't know what he is talking about. What is his point? What is his evidence? Second, he doesn't actually mention illegal immigration in his speech in the video clip. He does later hint that's what he is talking about, although in all his ramblings it is hard to tell.

so, the problem isn't that he incredibly vague insulting statement isn't technically true. The problem is why is he saying it? What is his point? And, given his point, what is his evidence? It's important to both have a point, and have evidence for it, especially in this case because spreading bad ideas about a group, may embolden people to target that group (re recent history).

That's your leader.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Old School wrote:
What is the quote that you believe is a "sweeping claim?"


This is the dance that apologists of Trump's unsubstantiated claims do.

Asking those with TDS for specific examples of Trump's evilness is dancing? I know that some let emotional responses outweigh rational thought, but asking for proofs to back an opinion shouldn't be considered as obfuscating a discussion of differing ideas.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Old School wrote:
What is the quote that you believe is a "sweeping claim?"
Are you saying that no illegal immigrant from Mexico ever raped someone in the US? Or are you saying that not enough rapes have occurred for it to be an issue? If that is the case, how many rapes on an annual basis would it take to be an issue?


This is the dance that apologists of Trump's unsubstantiated claims do.


Really? What Trump said is absolutely true. The illegals coming in are not the pillars of American society. We have MS-13 gang problems on the East coast now. These are absolute thugs.

We have many fine immigrants, I'm married to one. But those are the ones who follow the rules and don't just sneak in through a window in the middle of the night and steal your money.
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