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erm67
l33t
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 653
Location: EU
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 Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | I never said it wasn't something to consider, in fact if you go back you will see the third reply I advocated that.
What I am refuting is, and I quote
| erm67 wrote: |
This would solve the problem. |
The problem isn't defined. In RRCA, solutionizing without a defined problem statement is bound to fail as there is no defined validation |
Well ok the problem is complex and multifaceted since it is not possible to define a first level subsystem (teh problema) the better approach is probably bottom up, vanity and possibly contribute to the link count to some politically linked page is one of the various things on the bottom that should be fixed, just go after them one by one. Maybe that would fix other aspects as well.
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Ok boomer
True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it.
Ab esse ad posse valet, a posse ad esse non valet consequentia
My fediverse account: @erm67@erm67.dynu.net |
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bunder
Bodhisattva
Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 5934
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| Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| John R. Graham wrote: | | NeddySeagoon wrote: | Ant P.
Watch this space  |
Aww, you told! 
- John |
not like i didn't try years ago. 
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| Neddyseagoon wrote: | | The problem with leaving is that you can only do it once and it reduces your influence. |
banned from #gentoo since sept 2017 |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 20067
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Tony0945 wrote: | | Naib wrote: | No.. all are locked.
For quite some it was the typical "thread has reached tooany pages for the BB make a new one" but the most recent one had a troll who continually distributed the thread so the moderators locked it |
Troll could have been banned instead? Raising the suspicion that persons highh up wanted it locked. Perhaps, even created the troll account for that purpose. |
This isn't exhaustive, but these were the easy to identify threads regarding systemd "discussion."
172 pages of posts spanning 6 years:
2013, 7 pages
2013, 3 pages
2014, 3 pages
2014, 31 pages
2014, 30 pages
2014, 20 pages
2015, 29 pages
2017, 3 pages
2017, 24 pages
2018, 1 page
2018, 6 pages
2018, 15 pages
The threads I'm' familiar with were not locked because of a single bad apple. I've seen a page or more of "input" added between visits to those threads which make them difficult to keep up with for any meaningful moderation. Then there's the issue of resolving reported posts, only to discover the reporter ought to have not used that feature. Also, and I shouldn't mention this (sorry team), but I'm not aware of a ban on new topics. So if you really feel that you have some insight that hasn't been mentioned in those 172 pages, just be aware of the historical outcome.
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Quis separabit? Quo animo? |
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Tony0945
Watchman
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 5127
Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 172 pages of posts spanning 6 years: |
More than one page every two weeks. A huge burden. |
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The Doctor
Moderator
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 2678
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| Tony0945 wrote: | | Quote: | | 172 pages of posts spanning 6 years: |
More than one page every two weeks. A huge burden. |
As I'm sure you are well aware the rate is not continuous.
Just as your average speed going to work may be 30 mph that doesn't mean you will ever have that sustained speed. You will spend some time at 65 on the freeway, 55 on the highway, 35 on the side street and zero stopped at the traffic lights.
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First things first, but not necessarily in that order.
Apologies if I take a while to respond. I'm currently working on the dematerialization circuit for my blue box. |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 20067
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| Tony0945 wrote: | | Quote: | | 172 pages of posts spanning 6 years: |
More than one page every two weeks. A huge burden. |
Do you believe that is an accurate representation of time and effort involved? Maybe you're just trolling, though surely not in an attempt to get this thread locked?
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Quis separabit? Quo animo? |
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Tony0945
Watchman
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 5127
Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | [Do you believe that is an accurate representation of time and effort involved? Maybe you're just trolling, though surely not in an attempt to get this thread locked? |
Threat noted. Leaving the thread. No more posts. Don't want to ruin it for others. |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 20067
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:24 am Post subject: |
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That wasn't a threat. I first tried to address your concern of a conspiracy, then I asked about your response. Although I notice that you focused on very selectively narrow parts of my posts in your responses.
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berferd
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: |
No.. all are locked.
For quite some it was the typical "thread has reached tooany pages for the BB make a new one" but the most recent one had a troll who continually distributed the thread so the moderators locked it
Edit.
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-8310006.html#8310006 |
Funny you should bring that thread up. I had something to say about Mr. Rice that was not an ad hominen attack.
I actually didn't bother to check about any open systemd threads. I assumed they were all locked based on pure bias. Bias confirmation FTW! |
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NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54237
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Technical discussions are not locked as long as they stay technical.
Systemd vs the rest of the world always appears to descend in pantomime, religion or politics one way or another.
Threads are locked when there is no hope of getting them back on topic.
Systemd isn't the only topic that brings out religious fervour in both its supporters and detractors. Its just the newest.
This is the wrong topic to be hosting a meta discussion on systemd. Someone start a new topic to continue that discussion if it needs to continue.
Meanwhile, the topic here is the Gentoo Forums.
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Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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berferd
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Can't discuss forums moderation on the thread about how there's a perceived need for more forums moderation -- got it!
Not like you have any conflicts of interest with regards to the thread in question, either. |
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Ant P.
Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6920
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. |
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Hu
Moderator
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 21633
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Neddy said that this is not a systemd thread. He did not say you cannot discuss forum moderation, and if you look back, there was quite a bit of that before discussion veered off into whether the systemd threads had been moderated to the standards of various posters'. If you want to discuss forum administration at a high level, put it in this thread. If you want to discuss whether the moderators handled the systemd threads to your standards, make a separate thread, optionally link to it here once so everyone can find it readily, and continue the systemd-specific meta-discussion in that thread. |
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mrbassie
l33t
Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 772
Location: over here
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Ant P. wrote: | | Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. |
No it isn't. |
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1clue
Advocate
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 2569
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| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| The Doctor wrote: | | Tony0945 wrote: | | Quote: | | 172 pages of posts spanning 6 years: |
More than one page every two weeks. A huge burden. |
As I'm sure you are well aware the rate is not continuous.
Just as your average speed going to work may be 30 mph that doesn't mean you will ever have that sustained speed. You will spend some time at 65 on the freeway, 55 on the highway, 35 on the side street and zero stopped at the traffic lights. |
First, let's assume a spherical chicken of uniform density... |
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The Doctor
Moderator
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 2678
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| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| 1clue wrote: |
First, let's assume a spherical chicken of uniform density... |
In a friction-less vacuum...
_________________
First things first, but not necessarily in that order.
Apologies if I take a while to respond. I'm currently working on the dematerialization circuit for my blue box. |
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Akkara
Bodhisattva
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 6702
Location: &akkara
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| Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| The Doctor wrote: | | 1clue wrote: |
First, let's assume a spherical chicken of uniform density... |
In a friction-less vacuum... |
Traveling with sufficient velocity that we can ignore its rest mass contribution to the energy tensor...
(and now I'm going to have to split these and my own post for going off-topic...)
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Many think that Dilbert is a comic. Unfortunately it is a documentary. |
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1clue
Advocate
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 2569
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| Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Akkara wrote: | | The Doctor wrote: | | 1clue wrote: |
First, let's assume a spherical chicken of uniform density... |
In a friction-less vacuum... |
Traveling with sufficient velocity that we can ignore its rest mass contribution to the energy tensor...
(and now I'm going to have to split these and my own post for going off-topic...) |
I would apologize for taking the thread off-topic with respect to the spherical chicken, but in fact it was already off-topic with people arguing about how we argue about a specific init manager.
At least my diversion is entertaining and (more) universally funny. |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 20067
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| Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| 1clue wrote: | I would apologize for taking the thread off-topic with respect to the spherical chicken, but in fact it was already off-topic with people arguing about how we argue about a specific init manager.
At least my diversion is entertaining and (more) universally funny. |
The original reference was directly related to the subject matter of this thread. Conversations happen organically, and this demonstrates it well. The spherical chicken reference too. It's a bit of humor directly related to the organic conversation. The only real "problem," is when it dominates conversation off the original topic. And I'd posit that when that happens, it is an indicator that the original discussion is probably done.
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Quis separabit? Quo animo? |
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Ant P.
Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6920
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:18 am Post subject: |
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Back on topic.
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/b3adb67c617a8c4b367f2a35adb19f69
It seems the goalposts are being moved: instead of OTW being the issue, the rest of us are now suddenly being blamed for a breakdown in communication. Which is very surprising, considering the forums have changed little in the past ten years. The developer clique's elitist, unapproachable attitude is certainly getting worse though.
I guess the code of conduct only exists when they're swinging it at someone *else's* head. TomWij didn't even get a slap on the wrist for his reign of terror in ~2013. |
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Naib
Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6051
Location: Removed by Neddy
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| Ant P. wrote: | Back on topic.
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/b3adb67c617a8c4b367f2a35adb19f69
It seems the goalposts are being moved: instead of OTW being the issue, the rest of us are now suddenly being blamed for a breakdown in communication. Which is very surprising, considering the forums have changed little in the past ten years. The developer clique's elitist, unapproachable attitude is certainly getting worse though.
I guess the code of conduct only exists when they're swinging it at someone *else's* head. TomWij didn't even get a slap on the wrist for his reign of terror in ~2013. |
wow just wow...
there have been complaints from developers when frivolous bug reports (and invalid reports) ... I have a complaint from a developer stating "do not raise stability requests on their packages" ... and now complaints that actual issues are not raised.
Dear god...
Crash course in a COMMUNITY developers... We the community like each other and help each other. People post here, people post on IRC, people post on other forums (gentoo question) because they are having a problem and they don't know if it is a bug, something they did or something they didn't do.
We the community filter that out and a number of us VOLUNTEER our time to help them. Are they people who provide bad or hacky solution? yes just like there are bad developers pushing systemd type artifacts into OpenRC
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| Quote: | | Removed by Chiitoo |
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Ant P.
Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6920
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| It's not just Gentoo users who the developers treat with contempt either - GLEP 76's deadnaming policy is about as popular as a flaming bag of dog turds, from several accounts I've heard. |
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mike155
Advocate
Joined: 17 Sep 2010
Posts: 4438
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:30 am Post subject: |
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This is one of the most offending, arrogant and disgusting posts I've read so far.
Maybe we should stop answering questions in the support forums. Instead, we could ask users to send their questions directly to Michał Górny. |
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Ant P.
Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6920
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| mike155 wrote: | | Maybe we should stop answering questions in the support forums. Instead, we could ask users to send their questions directly to Michał Górny. |
That sounds like a fate worse than having one's thread moved to OTW. |
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Naib
Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6051
Location: Removed by Neddy
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:05 am Post subject: |
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This just gets better and better...
We have developers bringing Gentoo into disrepute, more so that OTW ever could.
People view a distro based upon the interactions, the help NOT on soneoff topic banter sections.
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