Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
No! More forums!
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
erm67
Guru
Guru


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 342
Location: EU

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
I never said it wasn't something to consider, in fact if you go back you will see the third reply I advocated that.

What I am refuting is, and I quote
erm67 wrote:


This would solve the problem.


The problem isn't defined. In RRCA, solutionizing without a defined problem statement is bound to fail as there is no defined validation


Well ok the problem is complex and multifaceted since it is not possible to define a first level subsystem (teh problema) the better approach is probably bottom up, vanity and possibly contribute to the link count to some politically linked page is one of the various things on the bottom that should be fixed, just go after them one by one. Maybe that would fix other aspects as well.
_________________
True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it.
Ab esse ad posse valet, a posse ad esse non valet consequentia

My fediverse account: @erm67@erm67.dynu.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bunder
Bodhisattva
Bodhisattva


Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 5834

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham wrote:
NeddySeagoon wrote:
Ant P.

Watch this space :)
Aww, you told! ;)

- John


not like i didn't try years ago. :P
_________________
overlay | patches
Neddyseagoon wrote:
The problem with leaving is that you can only do it once and it reduces your influence.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 17854

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony0945 wrote:
Naib wrote:
No.. all are locked.
For quite some it was the typical "thread has reached tooany pages for the BB make a new one" but the most recent one had a troll who continually distributed the thread so the moderators locked it

Troll could have been banned instead? Raising the suspicion that persons highh up wanted it locked. Perhaps, even created the troll account for that purpose.
This isn't exhaustive, but these were the easy to identify threads regarding systemd "discussion."

172 pages of posts spanning 6 years:
2013, 7 pages
2013, 3 pages
2014, 3 pages
2014, 31 pages
2014, 30 pages
2014, 20 pages
2015, 29 pages
2017, 3 pages
2017, 24 pages
2018, 1 page
2018, 6 pages
2018, 15 pages

The threads I'm' familiar with were not locked because of a single bad apple. I've seen a page or more of "input" added between visits to those threads which make them difficult to keep up with for any meaningful moderation. Then there's the issue of resolving reported posts, only to discover the reporter ought to have not used that feature. Also, and I shouldn't mention this (sorry team), but I'm not aware of a ban on new topics. So if you really feel that you have some insight that hasn't been mentioned in those 172 pages, just be aware of the historical outcome.
_________________

Believing I had supernatural powers I slammed into a brick wall.
I said hey, is this my problem? Is this my fault?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tony0945
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 3028
Location: Illinois, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
172 pages of posts spanning 6 years:
More than one page every two weeks. A huge burden.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Doctor
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 2571

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony0945 wrote:
Quote:
172 pages of posts spanning 6 years:
More than one page every two weeks. A huge burden.
As I'm sure you are well aware the rate is not continuous.

Just as your average speed going to work may be 30 mph that doesn't mean you will ever have that sustained speed. You will spend some time at 65 on the freeway, 55 on the highway, 35 on the side street and zero stopped at the traffic lights.
_________________
First things first, but not necessarily in that order.

Apologies if I take a while to respond. I'm currently working on the dematerialization circuit for my blue box.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 17854

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony0945 wrote:
Quote:
172 pages of posts spanning 6 years:
More than one page every two weeks. A huge burden.
Do you believe that is an accurate representation of time and effort involved? Maybe you're just trolling, though surely not in an attempt to get this thread locked?
_________________

Believing I had supernatural powers I slammed into a brick wall.
I said hey, is this my problem? Is this my fault?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tony0945
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 3028
Location: Illinois, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
[Do you believe that is an accurate representation of time and effort involved? Maybe you're just trolling, though surely not in an attempt to get this thread locked?

Threat noted. Leaving the thread. No more posts. Don't want to ruin it for others.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 17854

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That wasn't a threat. I first tried to address your concern of a conspiracy, then I asked about your response. Although I notice that you focused on very selectively narrow parts of my posts in your responses.
_________________

Believing I had supernatural powers I slammed into a brick wall.
I said hey, is this my problem? Is this my fault?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
berferd
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:

No.. all are locked.
For quite some it was the typical "thread has reached tooany pages for the BB make a new one" but the most recent one had a troll who continually distributed the thread so the moderators locked it

Edit.
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-8310006.html#8310006


Funny you should bring that thread up. I had something to say about Mr. Rice that was not an ad hominen attack.

I actually didn't bother to check about any open systemd threads. I assumed they were all locked based on pure bias. Bias confirmation FTW!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 43009
Location: 56N 3W

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Technical discussions are not locked as long as they stay technical.
Systemd vs the rest of the world always appears to descend in pantomime, religion or politics one way or another.
Threads are locked when there is no hope of getting them back on topic.

Systemd isn't the only topic that brings out religious fervour in both its supporters and detractors. Its just the newest.

This is the wrong topic to be hosting a meta discussion on systemd. Someone start a new topic to continue that discussion if it needs to continue.

Meanwhile, the topic here is the Gentoo Forums.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
berferd
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't discuss forums moderation on the thread about how there's a perceived need for more forums moderation -- got it!

Not like you have any conflicts of interest with regards to the thread in question, either.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ant P.
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 5720

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hu
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 13730

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neddy said that this is not a systemd thread. He did not say you cannot discuss forum moderation, and if you look back, there was quite a bit of that before discussion veered off into whether the systemd threads had been moderated to the standards of various posters'. If you want to discuss forum administration at a high level, put it in this thread. If you want to discuss whether the moderators handled the systemd threads to your standards, make a separate thread, optionally link to it here once so everyone can find it readily, and continue the systemd-specific meta-discussion in that thread.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mrbassie
Guru
Guru


Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.


No it isn't.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1clue
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 2534

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
Tony0945 wrote:
Quote:
172 pages of posts spanning 6 years:
More than one page every two weeks. A huge burden.
As I'm sure you are well aware the rate is not continuous.

Just as your average speed going to work may be 30 mph that doesn't mean you will ever have that sustained speed. You will spend some time at 65 on the freeway, 55 on the highway, 35 on the side street and zero stopped at the traffic lights.


First, let's assume a spherical chicken of uniform density...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Doctor
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 2571

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1clue wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
...


First, let's assume a spherical chicken of uniform density...
In a friction-less vacuum...
_________________
First things first, but not necessarily in that order.

Apologies if I take a while to respond. I'm currently working on the dematerialization circuit for my blue box.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Akkara
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 6666
Location: &akkara

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
1clue wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
...


First, let's assume a spherical chicken of uniform density...
In a friction-less vacuum...
Traveling with sufficient velocity that we can ignore its rest mass contribution to the energy tensor...

(and now I'm going to have to split these and my own post for going off-topic...)
_________________
Isn't it odd that no job openings ever list being potty-trained as one of the requirements?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1clue
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 2534

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Akkara wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
1clue wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
...


First, let's assume a spherical chicken of uniform density...
In a friction-less vacuum...
Traveling with sufficient velocity that we can ignore its rest mass contribution to the energy tensor...

(and now I'm going to have to split these and my own post for going off-topic...)


I would apologize for taking the thread off-topic with respect to the spherical chicken, but in fact it was already off-topic with people arguing about how we argue about a specific init manager.

At least my diversion is entertaining and (more) universally funny.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 17854

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1clue wrote:
I would apologize for taking the thread off-topic with respect to the spherical chicken, but in fact it was already off-topic with people arguing about how we argue about a specific init manager.

At least my diversion is entertaining and (more) universally funny.
The original reference was directly related to the subject matter of this thread. Conversations happen organically, and this demonstrates it well. The spherical chicken reference too. It's a bit of humor directly related to the organic conversation. The only real "problem," is when it dominates conversation off the original topic. And I'd posit that when that happens, it is an indicator that the original discussion is probably done.
_________________

Believing I had supernatural powers I slammed into a brick wall.
I said hey, is this my problem? Is this my fault?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ant P.
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 5720

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back on topic.
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/b3adb67c617a8c4b367f2a35adb19f69

It seems the goalposts are being moved: instead of OTW being the issue, the rest of us are now suddenly being blamed for a breakdown in communication. Which is very surprising, considering the forums have changed little in the past ten years. The developer clique's elitist, unapproachable attitude is certainly getting worse though.

I guess the code of conduct only exists when they're swinging it at someone *else's* head. TomWij didn't even get a slap on the wrist for his reign of terror in ~2013.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5617
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
Back on topic.
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/b3adb67c617a8c4b367f2a35adb19f69

It seems the goalposts are being moved: instead of OTW being the issue, the rest of us are now suddenly being blamed for a breakdown in communication. Which is very surprising, considering the forums have changed little in the past ten years. The developer clique's elitist, unapproachable attitude is certainly getting worse though.

I guess the code of conduct only exists when they're swinging it at someone *else's* head. TomWij didn't even get a slap on the wrist for his reign of terror in ~2013.


wow just wow...

there have been complaints from developers when frivolous bug reports (and invalid reports) ... I have a complaint from a developer stating "do not raise stability requests on their packages" ... and now complaints that actual issues are not raised.
Dear god...

Crash course in a COMMUNITY developers... We the community like each other and help each other. People post here, people post on IRC, people post on other forums (gentoo question) because they are having a problem and they don't know if it is a bug, something they did or something they didn't do.

We the community filter that out and a number of us VOLUNTEER our time to help them. Are they people who provide bad or hacky solution? yes just like there are bad developers pushing systemd type artifacts into OpenRC
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ant P.
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 5720

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not just Gentoo users who the developers treat with contempt either - GLEP 76's deadnaming policy is about as popular as a flaming bag of dog turds, from several accounts I've heard.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mike155
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 17 Sep 2010
Posts: 1190
Location: Frankfurt, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michał Górny wrote:
"I don't think OTW is a major problem. ... Forums tend to breed very bad 'solutions'."

"Forums are home to many horrible 'solutions'. "

"Forum victims"

"Forums is frequently a source of bad information"

See: https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/b3adb67c617a8c4b367f2a35adb19f69

This is one of the most offending, arrogant and disgusting posts I've read so far.

Maybe we should stop answering questions in the support forums. Instead, we could ask users to send their questions directly to Michał Górny.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ant P.
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 5720

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike155 wrote:
Maybe we should stop answering questions in the support forums. Instead, we could ask users to send their questions directly to Michał Górny.

That sounds like a fate worse than having one's thread moved to OTW.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5617
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This just gets better and better...

We have developers bringing Gentoo into disrepute, more so that OTW ever could.

People view a distro based upon the interactions, the help NOT on soneoff topic banter sections.
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 4 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum