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Proinsias
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Tony0945 wrote:
Back on track, Gentoo without forums is what? Funtoo without Daniel Robbins.
yes... back on track. Exactly...
What distro does not have a support forum (in fact what distro which has a support forum doesn't have an off-topic section...)

I've run Alpine, Void & Adelie recently, posting from an Alpine laptop just now, but....they don't have a support forum. The Funtoo forum is pretty quiet. I've not logged into the Arch forum for a while but the offtopic stuff is not visible when not logged in. The Gentoo forums are a wonderful resource and asset. OTW may be a bit of a clownhouse/toilet but I do think this helps keep the community health; it's a place to vent, a place for nonsense and a dumping ground for threads gone astray.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

szatox wrote:
I don't really see the difference between thought control and removing places frequented by people holding views opposing yours.

Have you stopped beating your wife, szatox?

That's not what I propose. I propose removing all political views including those I support.
It's like telling risque jokes in church. An inappropriate place for it. The corner bar, yeah. Church? No.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony0945,

Tony0945 wrote:
I propose removing all political views including those I support.

Removing equates to censorship in some readers eyes. Then there are shades of grey where politics is used to illustrate a point or as a worked example.

Very few posts are deleted from the forums - ever. We make an exception when cleaning up after a spammer gone wild but even then, examples are retained.
Some of the worst excesses in the technical forums are hidden or thrown to OTW.
We still need OTW for that.

Censorship, as in the the editing or removal of posts has risks beyond the workload it would impose.
The minimal editorial control imposed today makes the Gentoo Forums a common carrier. Were that to change, we might be reclassified as a publisher.
Gentoo does not want to go there. Your views, expressed here remain yours. With editorial control, they may be held to be those of Gentoo.
Think about the shift in liability.
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szatox
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony0945 wrote:
szatox wrote:
I don't really see the difference between thought control and removing places frequented by people holding views opposing yours.

Have you stopped beating your wife, szatox?
That's not what I propose. I propose removing all political views including those I support.

Happily never married, so the answer must be "no".
You dodged my question. It wasn't about which side of political discussion should be allowed. I though I made it clear by pointing out at "gentoo chat". We can do tech support without that one. How do you determine whether we should keep it or remove?
Quote:
It's like telling risque jokes in church. An inappropriate place for it. The corner bar, yeah. Church? No.

One of my personal favourites:
Q: How do you know a politician is telling a lie?
A: His lips are moving.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

szatox,

I like that one too! I grew up in the shadow of Richard J. Daley's Chicago.

NeddySeagoon,

I see the problem, but if the choice is getting rid of OTW or all the forums, I vote for OTW. Of course, I don't get a vote.
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've figured out a way to make everyone happy:

1. Keep OTW exactly where it is.
2. Get rid of everything else. By moving it to phpBB3! :wink:
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P.

Watch this space :)
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony0945,

Everyone can lobby the council, either publically on the -project mailing list or privately on the council alas or even by writing to them individually on fheir gentoo email addresses.

Council members will be the only ones to get a volte
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1clue
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my strongly held opinion, a distro these days with no forum is soon to be a dead distro.

The day they turn it off is the day I wipe all my Gentoo installs and find something else.
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeddySeagoon wrote:
Ant P.

Watch this space :)
Aww, you told! ;)

- John
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
I've figured out a way to make everyone happy:

1. Keep OTW exactly where it is.
2. Get rid of everything else. By moving it to phpBB3! :wink:


I have another idea: what if we all agree that we hate speech and simply never communicate with anyone or anything, in any way, for any reason ever again?
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrbassie wrote:
I have another idea: what if we all agree that we hate speech and simply never communicate with anyone or anything, in any way, for any reason ever again?

Absolutely.
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saellaven
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Council is supposed to be a technical decision making group (hence why it is exclusively developers, even if I think there should be community members), not the Trustees of the Gentoo entirely... and speaking of the Trustees of the Gentoo Foundation, where are they (I see you're no longer a Trustee Neddy - what happened?), given that they're the only group that actually has the power to govern Gentoo?
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

saellaven,

I retired from paid employment. I qualify I was expecting my Gentoo time to become seasonal and sporadic.
That meant I could no longer be sure I could give the commitment to Gentoo that being a trustee requires.

Life hasn't turned out the way we planned - yet, so meanwhile I'm around more than I expected.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A quiz! What fun!



Where were you when Kennedy was shot
Taking a Chemistry Exam. One of those big 200 person classes that were popular then. I saw a wave of buzz proceeding left to right and back to front. I leaned over and ask what was up. Another guy said "The President and Governor of Texas were shot in Dallas!" I said, "Get out of here with those wild rumors!" Five minutes later, Dr. Smith received an envelope and made the announcement, saying anyone too upset for the test could reschedule without penalty.

Did you watch the first transatlantic TV images
I don't think so.

Did you watch Neil Armstrong step onto the Moon
Yes!
Did you watch England win the World Cup
No.
Can you remember the '60s
Like Bob Seeger's "Night Moves." "Lordy, I remember!"
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mrbassie
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
mrbassie wrote:
I have another idea: what if we all agree that we hate speech and simply never communicate with anyone or anything, in any way, for any reason ever again?

Absolutely.


Damnit! We communicated. There may be a flaw in my logic.
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berferd
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
I welcome you to check a systemd thread if you doubt heated opinions are exchanged on support forums.


Are there any that are not locked? Maybe I should start one on OTW.
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The Doctor
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

berferd wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
I welcome you to check a systemd thread if you doubt heated opinions are exchanged on support forums.


Are there any that are not locked? Maybe I should start one on OTW.
There was one that was intentionally allowed to remain unlocked, but I don't think it has been active for a few months.
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erm67
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Proinsias wrote:
I've not logged into the Arch forum for a while but the offtopic stuff is not visible when not logged in.


This would solve the problem.
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True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it.
Ab esse ad posse valet, a posse ad esse non valet consequentia

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krinn
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

saellaven wrote:
Council is supposed to be a technical decision making group

Which raise the real question, why does Council wants OTW's head if it's not to get forum admin's heads?
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Naib
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
berferd wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
I welcome you to check a systemd thread if you doubt heated opinions are exchanged on support forums.


Are there any that are not locked? Maybe I should start one on OTW.
There was one that was intentionally allowed to remain unlocked, but I don't think it has been active for a few months.


No.. all are locked.
For quite some it was the typical "thread has reached tooany pages for the BB make a new one" but the most recent one had a troll who continually distributed the thread so the moderators locked it

Edit.
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-8310006.html#8310006
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Last edited by Naib on Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Naib
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
Proinsias wrote:
I've not logged into the Arch forum for a while but the offtopic stuff is not visible when not logged in.


This would solve the problem.

No it wouldn't.. for starters the problem has not be defined, secondly spam has occured on other sections and finally vitriol has occured in other sections
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The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
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erm67
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
erm67 wrote:
Proinsias wrote:
I've not logged into the Arch forum for a while but the offtopic stuff is not visible when not logged in.


This would solve the problem.

No it wouldn't.. for starters the problem has not be defined, secondly spam has occured on other sections and finally vitriol has occured in other sections

It would be worth a try anyway, what's the problem with it?
at least otw would no longer be indexed by google, it is probably an option in phpbb that can be enabled with no effort.
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True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it.
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Naib
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never said it wasn't something to consider, in fact if you go back you will see the third reply I advocated that.

What I am refuting is, and I quote
erm67 wrote:


This would solve the problem.


The problem isn't defined. In RRCA, solutionizing without a defined problem statement is bound to fail as there is no defined validation
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
No.. all are locked.
For quite some it was the typical "thread has reached tooany pages for the BB make a new one" but the most recent one had a troll who continually distributed the thread so the moderators locked it

Troll could have been banned instead? Raising the suspicion that persons highh up wanted it locked. Perhaps, even created the troll account for that purpose.
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