Not much impressed by Gentoo !

khosrow · n00b Joined: 20 May 2019 Posts: 4

Hi everyone,

I am a long-time Debian user and decided to try Gentoo as well, just because of lots of propaganda out there saying that it is so much better , or whatever.
Unfortunately, so far my experience with Gentoo has not been so impressive! After spending hours for installing from a minimal cd (actually USB), I realized that it is not possible to setup an EFI system from the minimal disk and one has to use a daily .iso snapshot to do that! Well, why just not wanning about this from the very beginning?! so, people don't waste their time!
anyway, I did it again, this time with MBR and the system boot nicely. What do you thing will be the first package to install after a fress Linux installation? right, xorg, because, few people only use a console. OK, so i tried to emerge a minimal x-server, but I got circular dependencies with dev-lib/cmake. The error message suggested to remove qt5 USE option for this package. I did so in the /etc/portage/package.use, and the error disappeared. but, later I got another error complaining about the FB_RADEON frame grabber that I had configured as a module in my kernel. I don't undestand this at all! It is just a module that can be removed, if necessary, right? apparently the x-server didn't like it (??).
anyhow, I am now recompiling my kernel without this module to see if the problem will go away or not.
Also, compilling everything from source takes infinite time even on moderate hardware. I don't like it either, too slow!

I never ever had such problems with apt-get to install trivial packages right at the beginning!
In my opinion in any computer program the default must just make sense for majority of cases. If a fresh installation with default options (USE qt5 or install from minimal disk in this case) give you trouble, then there is something seriously wrong!

I welcome your comments.

Naib · Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 6:22 am Post subject:

What profile did you select?
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duane · Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 7:45 am Post subject: Fatigue

If the compiling is getting on your nerves already, run now and don't look back! Try archlinux or sabayon. (Mind you, you can get binary packages in gentoo.)

It helps the installation fatigue if you build the system in a chroot on a working system (or a nice livecd). That lets you get other things done while it chews through all the source code. I don't just build the minimum and reboot either - I get everything up to and including my window manager compiled first.

And I recommend using genkernel initially. There's plenty of time to get your custom kernel ready after the system is running.

Blind_Sniper · Guru Joined: 20 Apr 2018 Posts: 340

asturm · Developer Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 8936

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 9:31 am Post subject:

khosrow,

Gentoo is not a binary distro. Don't treat it like one. You cannot assemble all the parts then switch on. Nobody has put a distro together like yours before.
Build on what you know works.

Gentoo isn'l for everyone. Its a toolkit to make your own linux. When you have your own linux, it still only a tool to do a job.
Use whatever tool you feel most comfortable with for your job. That might even be Windows.
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Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
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bghoons · n00b Joined: 04 May 2015 Posts: 47 Location: USA

Jaglover · Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 11:57 am Post subject:

Most is already covered above. One statement has left:

steve_v · Guru Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 388 Location: New Zealand

Jaglover · Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 12:46 pm Post subject:

One more thing. There is not much point coming here complaining "Gentoo is not for me". We here do not sell Gentoo. This is a community of volunteers and Gentoo enthusiasts. In case you are interested in Gentoo - try it, learn it. If in the end you decide it is not what you want - go in peace. Criticizing something you are not familiar with is not very smart, is it?
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Ant P. · Watchman Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 6920

John R. Graham · Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 1:59 pm Post subject:

I do think the "Where to go from here" section at the end of the Handbook could be more helpful. The Handbook preconditions the new user to the ideal, "If you want it, just emerge it," paradigm, but there is some additional complexity that has been covered by (well-written, easy to follow) articles in the Wiki. Installing X and a desktop environment come to mind, which appears to be exactly where the OP stumbled. I think it would be very helpful to reference a few well-chosen articles. (Think I will propose some text.)

That said, I don't think there's anything "seriously wrong".

- John
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Naib · Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 2:02 pm Post subject:

khosrow · n00b Joined: 20 May 2019 Posts: 4

Thank you guys for all your very welcoming comments

I chose the default/linux/amd64/17.0 profile to have a minimal system to begin with. Recompiling the kernel without Radeon frame grabber built into the kernel did not solve the issue. I had put some extra USE options (alsa cups gimp ...) in my /etc/portage/make.conf, which I thought might be the cause of the discrepancies, therefore I decided to go with as few options as -kde -gnome. also removed the qt5 option, then updated the @world . still I am getting the following error:

Jaglover · Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 4:48 pm Post subject:

Gentoo has wgetpaste utiliy, and there is a Wiki page about its usage.
BTW, Gentoo is not just a toy, there are Gentoo farms out there and with identical hardware it is easy to set up a local binhost to provide packages for all machines.
Oh, and Arch and Slackware really are not source based, although you can compile if you choose so.
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Anon-E-moose · Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 5:30 pm Post subject:

Not much of a way to get past the fact that gentoo is a source based distro (meaning you compile things for it)

If you can't stand compiling everything or the time it takes to compile, then the only choice is a binary distro.
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NeddySeagoon · Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 6:23 pm Post subject:

khosrow,

All of the dedicated hardware Framebuffer drivers are for hardware that was common around the turn of the millennium. Like ISA sound cards and the weird and wonderful CROM interfaces they used to have, they are still in the kernel.

Gentoo is the ::gentoo repo, the main ebuild tree and the portage package manager. That's all.

Gentoo has a lot more controls that a binary distro. If you

desultory · Bodhisattva Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 9410

steve_v · Guru Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 388 Location: New Zealand

khosrow · n00b Joined: 20 May 2019 Posts: 4

just my final words before leaving this forum:

In my opinion having too many options (to install, configure, etc.) is not considered by itself an advantage.
Being consistent, predictable, and understandable are more important. I have no clue what causes the error I mentioned in my previous post! If a feature is what 95% of people would most likely need, then what is wrong with making it the default? I would be happy if that option is already set. Then, what I have to really care about is the very specific options that only small group of people may need to consider.

I remember the first Debian installation (around 2004) took me about two weeks or so to complete. I fear with Gentoo, now it will take more just to have X running on my laptop. I've already spent a week (on and off) to read the relevant sections of the handbook and boot the system. There should always be a compromise between time and effort with efficency and full control.

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 9:19 am Post subject:

khosrow,

Profiles set some good starting point defaults.
Choose a profile and nothing else, unless portage forces you to. Let it build then evaluate it. If it suits your needs, you are one of the 95% you mention.
If not. Tune it. You can add things and take things away.

Your error, if there was one, was trying to make all your choices before installing rather than starting out with something simple and growing your gentoo to meet your needs.
Build on what you know works.

I don't expect khosrow to read this. Its more for others who stumble over this thread in the future.
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Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

Naib · Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:00 am Post subject:

krinn · Watchman Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 7470

xanderal

Er, also

ian.au · Guru Joined: 07 Apr 2011 Posts: 591 Location: Australia

Just reading through this thread, it strikes me that one fundamental thing about Gentoo that may not be immediately obvious on reading is this:

It is very straightforward to install Gentoo if you follow the handbook and keep as near as possible to the default choices in the first instance. It's very tempting to skip over sections of the handbook if you already have some knowledge of a binary distribution (which I'd guess would be almost everyone by the time they get here) and think you know x or y section, avoid the temptation to skip what you think you know. Just work it through, from beginning and make informed choices on the way. Do that and you'll install a good, stable base system.

If you do hit problems, although doing the above you shouldn't; these forums are pretty much the Gold Standard for community support.

Accept that the first system you build will likely have shortcomings, but they are unlikely to be so severe as to require a rebuild. Be prepared to spend a bit of time debugging your install and learning the package manager and the very useful gentoolkit tools. In my experience that first install will be your last install until hardware calamity or the need to upgrade strikes. As you get better and more familiar with your system you will improve it over time.

Once you arrive at the point of a stable system, you have arrived at the destination of having 'created your own Linux distro', that sounds harder than it is, but does require time, patience and attention to detail to get right. Of course, you can build any type of system within the reasonable limits of target hardware from that base install, so it pays to spend the time, read some logs and make sure the basics are running correctly.

The additional benefit of doing this is you will have learned an enormous amount about basic linux system configuration and administration almost as a byproduct of the process. So if learning is your thing, you won't regret it; with the obvious caveat that the inverse applies.

Flags on packages are managed by the package manager, so unless you need to add a feature specifically, you will be told what (if any) flags are required during an initial pre-compile, so the whole 2^20 options is completely misleading if you were left with the impression you'd need to deal with anything like that in the course of everyday use.

So, ultimately you'll get the system you build. A toy? Yep, if you want, or a server, maybe running a network, or a Rock-Solid enterprise level deployment of desktop machines or running your solar-powered fallout bunker on a Raspberry Pi (all but one of which I have personally done

and all the tools to maintain what you built.

I must be missing something because that seems impressive to me, and has done for nearly two decades.

Cheers,