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big dave
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:50 pm    Post subject: Mueller? Mueller? Reply with quote

ABC reported weeks ago that leakers on team mueller said the anti-trumpers weren't going to like it.

so mueller turned in the report yesterday and announced there would be no more indictments. what you've seen is what they've got. it's over. still not a single charge for collusion. this is the largest debunked conspiracy theory of our time. alex jones was banned from social media for pushing debunked conspiracy theories. when are NYT, CNN, and other conspiracy theory hacks going to get banned from social media?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great thread title! :lol:
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Mueller? Mueller? Reply with quote

big dave wrote:
ABC reported weeks ago that leakers on team mueller said the anti-trumpers weren't going to like it.

so mueller turned in the report yesterday and announced there would be no more indictments. what you've seen is what they've got. it's over. still not a single charge for collusion. this is the largest debunked conspiracy theory of our time. alex jones was banned from social media for pushing debunked conspiracy theories. when are NYT, CNN, and other conspiracy theory hacks going to get banned from social media?
As I said before here many a time, collusion isn't actually a federal crime. What this fishing trips has shown is if there is any collusion, none involved criminal activities. We will have to wait if it says anything about collusion and trump but I doubt it.

All the indictments have been for process crimes which speaks volume as to how this was initiated and how it was run
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So why a jacka manian did some. You need to opress the shit out of it?
Says a lot about the ruling class.
Labradoodle:

ll the indictments have been for process crimes which speaks volume as to how this was initiated and how it was run


Shit.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It gets better. Wikileaks claims top Clinton aids invented the entire thing. Before anyone gets too disappointed this is not a primary source, just a less depressing one ;)

I'm sure it will not be coincidental that Hillary is going to declare her bid to take President Trump down in the next few days frothing at the mouth and spouting some type of cover up conspiracy. Either that or she is hoping the convention will nominate her from the floor. Her careful on-denial of possibly making a run is all too obvious she is going to make one but wants to time her announcement and raise money.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems to me that the Dems are going so far left and leaving her behind.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I don't think the Democratic Party want her around. The sick crooked neocon alcoholic needs to STFU and retire to her home in Chappaqua while Bill does what Bill does.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The progressives are not in control of the party. They are ripping it apart yelling that they are, but the establishment is still much as it was. They are planning to remove the new progressive embarrassments, so don't be surprised to see the queen return to be anointed the Dem's choice. They already proved they don't count votes for that.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:25 am    Post subject: Re: Mueller? Mueller? Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
What this fishing trips has shown is if there is any collusion, none involved criminal activities.
Any collusion involving Trump or his campaign. I've heard nothing to indicate that Mueller's investigation went outside of that scope.

The Doctor wrote:
Her careful on-denial of possibly making a run is all too obvious she is going to make one but wants to time her announcement and raise money.
Oh, so she hasn't said she won't run? I thought I'd read or heard that she did. Not that saying no would preclude a change if "sentiment" also changed.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, Hillary has very clearly said she is not running but her spokesperson quickly corrected the news outlets that printed that she would not seek the presidency. They simply reinforced that at the current time she is not running. Recently she said she was waiting for the Mueller Report to drop before making a decision. Of course, her statements where meant to read that she isn't considering a run to the casual reader.

She has many supporters who say she is the only one who can take Trump in 2020. :roll:

Personally I still think emerging at the nominating convention as a floor nominee is her best play since voters hate her so much and another primary is going to be long and expensive with lots of political sniping. The convention makes it look like she is the savior for the party and stops her from looking greedy and bitter over 2016. She has been encouraging lots of dwarfs to run so there will be no clear nominee. That was FDR's play and the only way he could possibly have won a 3rd term. She is certainly politician enough to have considered this. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see it happen.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to believe that after what happened with Bernie, her receiving the nomination as nothing more than an award for attendance would cause problems with Independents.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
I'd like to believe that after what happened with Bernie, her receiving the nomination as nothing more than an award for attendance would cause problems with Independents.
Dems just pissed off labor unions with the Green New Deal so badly they publicly denounced it. For some bizarre reason, worrying about what people who actually vote for them doesn't seem to enter into the equation.

From my observations the Dems are splitting into at least two distinct groups. I don't think the party is going to survive very long. I expect a new "progressive party" and some sort of labor/centrist party will form shortly after 2020. Things are falling apart and they are building themselves an echo chamber in the media and on twitter to avoid seeing it. Particularly if they loose the unions they have no fundraising backbone or soft money. No money equals no party.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The democrat party is no longer center left. They are full on, guano loco, green left. As The Doctor pointed out, they have just lost a good portion of the labor vote by pissing off the unions. The media wing of the democrat party (CNN, NYT, WaPo, MSNBC, etc etc) are already fully on board the crazy train.

The sheer amount of "egg on face" with this release has, essentially, guaranteed a second Trump term.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Mueller? Mueller? Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Naib wrote:
What this fishing trips has shown is if there is any collusion, none involved criminal activities.
Any collusion involving Trump or his campaign. I've heard nothing to indicate that Mueller's investigation went outside of that scope.
The reason I said fishing trip is because collusion isn't a federal offence so what would investigating on collusion result in? naming and shaming. Golly that is worth the millions of dollars, the aggravation to the running over the gov'n for like 2 years.

They were sold a tale by Clinton w.r.t. "Collusion", the dossier which was compiled purely as a smear piece during the election and then weaponised as a last stab at removing what the deep state does not want - the people's voice being listened to.

If collusion isn't a federal offence, if it isn't something which could be used to impeach a president, why investigate? to find something which is "collusion to do foo" the foo could be illegal (collusion to hack as oppose to say ... collusion to use information provided). There was some Jackanory tail that collusion occurs as individuals wanted to believe the dossier as it aligned with their narrative, there was a will to make it stick so it was investigated. I again ask for what? why investigate for essentially bad PR, there was no hint of a federal crime, just "collusion" and thus a fishing trip.

The investigation team leaned heavily on individuals of Trump's team and wow.... Process crime WOW... All that was found that was a federal offence was how they acted during the investigation, and investigation into what? I am sure there was a hope that one of them would spill something indicating that Trump was obstructing the investigation - Process crime so that these last 2 years could be justified, but no... Either those individuals didn't flip OR there was no obstruction.

But this is obstruction/Process-crimes. What about this so called collusion... Clinton outright colluded with the russians - Uranium one for starters... All this has been a distraction, a waste of money, an aggravation into the operation of the gov'n and those that architected it are still walking.

This has parallels to Brexit where factions within the gov'n, within the party, within the establishment have aggravated the will of the people because they don't agree with the peoples choice or they don't think the people should have a choice... Trump and Brexit are a symptom of what western democracy really is, a veneer providing the illusion that the will of the people shapes the way a country is run and for decades/centuries this veneer was opaque enough that the direction the powers that be wanted things to go aligned with that of the people ...

US/UK are not unique in this, we just had enough people with the balls to vote the other way... EU is internally crippled and the € is on a death spiral (as it stands) yet there is a will to keep sovereign nations shackled some some archetected construct. Have I ever told you how much I hate design by committee :)
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Great thread title! :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Mueller? Mueller? Reply with quote

The Doctor wrote:
Particularly if they loose the unions they have no fundraising backbone or soft money. No money equals no party.
I think they'll largely caucus together. They'll be two more sub-groups of the same party. As a whole, that will pull them somewhat farther left. It remains to be seen how sticky the alt-left can be to a general audience and whether or not they can be de-elected by the party.


Naib wrote:
They were sold a tale by Clinton w.r.t. "Collusion", the dossier which was compiled purely as a smear piece during the election and then weaponised as a last stab at removing what the deep state does not want - the people's voice being listened to.
I don't disagree. I was just more specifically pointing out that the investigation was narrow and didn't look for crimes, real or imagined, beyond the Trump circle. Also notice that Republicans haven't -- well, I've been avoiding most news for a while, so they at least had not -- demonstrated any interest in even a superficial review of crimes outside that narrow scope. Republicans have no interest in anything meaningful Trump is trying to accomplish. They want him gone probably as much if not more than the traditional Democrat Party. The Democratic People's Republic of K-street will not give up their power.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and that's my point. they were looking for collusion and while I agree the investigation appears to have stayed within the bounds of the remit, the remit was flawed. there were accusations of collusion, not specific types-of with criminal undertone, just collusion.
All the reporting over the last couple of years as the press work themselves up over this have been pushing "collusion", just collusion because there was nothing specific to target with an aim to prosecute.

We don't know what is in the report and we may never find out. What we do know is there is nothing to warrant any more arrests, so there is no grounds for impeachment. This however is different from collusion and the report may state that there was some form of interactions between Trump and the Russian gov'n leading up to the election - collusion, but what of it? interacting with russia isn't in itself a criminal offence. Why utilise so much resource to conclude there were business discussions.. Was McDonnalds investigated by the FBI when they wanted to open restaurants in mother russia? what exactly was the investigation for if the premise isn't criminal but the aim was to find something, anything

Now the media (they have lost credibility to be referred to as reporting outlets) have to ask themselves.. there was the WMD fiasco that they worked the country up into a frenzy with regards to Iraq, now this :)
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Mueller? Mueller? Reply with quote

i am sorry to interrupt your discussion but: i don't know how you handle the problems caused by politics. but here at home i just vote now for weed legalization as the only precondition to go to give a vote. this zen principle makes me less talk about politics and also more happy.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn Greenwald wrote:
There should be major accountability in the US media and in the intelligence community they united with to drown US political discourse for 2 years straight in unhinged conspiratorial trash, distracting from real issues. That's what should happen as a first step. But it won't


Source
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Glenn Greenwald wrote:
There should be major accountability in the US media and in the intelligence community they united with to drown US political discourse for 2 years straight in unhinged conspiratorial trash, distracting from real issues. That's what should happen as a first step. But it won't


Source
++
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Muso wrote:
Glenn Greenwald wrote:
There should be major accountability in the US media and in the intelligence community they united with to drown US political discourse for 2 years straight in unhinged conspiratorial trash, distracting from real issues. That's what should happen as a first step. But it won't


Source
++


He's on fire today.

Everyone who questioned this buillshit scam from the start - who endured accusations of being Kremlin agents, Putin stooges, Trump supporters, anti-US haters, who got banned from cable news & had smear jobs published in the New Yorker & the like - should wear it all with pride.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trump mightn't be a plant for a foreign power, but guess who might be? https://newsvoice.com/i/3472096
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
the report may state that there was some form of interactions between Trump and the Russian gov'n leading up to the election - collusion, but what of it? interacting with russia isn't in itself a criminal offence.
Normal business, yes. But they can spin that. They were probably hoping for "If you'll do x for me, once I'm President, I'll do y ..." which could be seen as profiting from office. As a reminder, these are the same types who think aesthetics make a weapon more dangerous. What needs to come out of this is putting the justice system on trial for the coercion and threats over process crimes. As long as that exists, we do not have anything remotely close to a credible justice system (and there's a lot more after that).

Naib wrote:
Now the media (they have lost credibility to be referred to as reporting outlets)
Oh how I wish and hope that is true. Anyone paying attention recognized their lack of credibility prior to the 2016 campaign.

Naib wrote:
have to ask themselves.. there was the WMD fiasco that they worked the country up into a frenzy with regards to Iraq, now this :)
After election night, they very so briefly acted like they realized how out of touch they were. Then they found something to comfort themselves back to their normal. They will ask of themselves nothing and will deliver. I don't believe they're going to stop the circle-jerk about Russia. If the report isn't released, they'll speculate 24/7 about what is being hidden and that it obviously must be damning, the AG is colluding with Trump... see, he shouldn't have been confirmed, and the only way to get to the True Truthiness is to install their leader.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What was the flexibility that Obama telegraphed to Putin through Medvedev? A lot of things seemingly against US interests happened in the following years.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't believe they're going to stop the circle-jerk about Russia. If the report isn't released, they'll speculate 24/7 about what is being hidden and...
Politico is already saying that collusion is false, move on, all else is conspiracy theory. If MSNBC and CNN truly wish to go down that route it is not going to go over with the people who swing elections.

It seems to me, and I really hope this is accurate, that we are at a turning point where people will publicly reject the progressive agenda and political correctness in particular. As the left calls for more and more censorship more and more people are going to ask why. Gen Z was already becoming more conservative. That doesn't make for compelling election math. I think that the Democrats as a party are over and I hope we get a real liberal party to replace it. Debate makes us stronger. Free speech fights radicalization. The left used to understand this.
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