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erm67
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soon every platform will use Activity pub (including diaspora)
https://github.com/diaspora/diaspora/issues/7422

this is the news technology:
https://activitypub.rocks/

there are already platforms with more users than diaspora like http://mastodon.social/ that collected hundreds of thousand of users from twitter, and the emerging https://pleroma.social/ that runs on a raspberrypi, the latest version of Nextcloud also supports ActivityPub and is available on millions of routers and nas ....

Basically I register on my pleroma instance that runs inside my home and than I am able to be followed on every platform in the fediverse and I can follow people from every other platform/server in the fediverse. Of course personal data video and pictures marked as public will be copied outside and no longer be private, since digital copies cannot be revoked
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The concept makes my head hurt.

When I was young, I didn't have a wristwatch or moblie phone.
It wan common to be told you can go out but be home when the street lights come on.
I used to actually meet people.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fedeliallalinea wrote:
Jaglover wrote:
Naib wrote:
Facebook

Sure, and when you write "slave device" then you get banned for hate speech.

Really (I've never had a facebook account)?


You do have one, you just don't know it.

If any of the contacts on your phone have facebook, facebook will have made you a shadow profile. it will have also made you a friend network with anybody else with your number on their phone.

So they probably know, not just your name and location but also your place of work and your close family. This is of course not for any nefarious reasons, just to make it easier for you when you inevitably sign up for one
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Naib
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HungGarTiger wrote:
fedeliallalinea wrote:
Jaglover wrote:
Naib wrote:
Facebook

Sure, and when you write "slave device" then you get banned for hate speech.

Really (I've never had a facebook account)?


You do have one, you just don't know it.

If any of the contacts on your phone have facebook, facebook will have made you a shadow profile. it will have also made you a friend network with anybody else with your number on their phone.

So they probably know, not just your name and location but also your place of work and your close family. This is of course not for any nefarious reasons, just to make it easier for you when you inevitably sign up for one
While I agree, if you have interacted with anyone online that has a facebook account, there is a very VERY high chance you have a shadow facebook account ...

However... being banned on facebook for stating "slave device" is a bit of a hypobol but in this day and age it isn't far off reality. There was that vitrolic push by a bunch of SJW to force runtimes to be changed to remove master-slave because from a certain perspective it is demeaning (they miss the point this is talking about hardware not enslavement...). The left conflate a tiny aspect of society that offends them and forces the counter to it on everything. This has happened so this isn't some kind of conspiracy BUT as of yet people have not been banned from facebook (iirc)
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
Basically I register on my pleroma instance that runs inside my home and than I am able to be followed on every platform in the fediverse and I can follow people from every other platform/server in the fediverse. Of course personal data video and pictures marked as public will be copied outside and no longer be private, since digital copies cannot be revoked
Thanks for the info. email and newsgroups seemed to have solved the problem with fewer shiny complications. I'm looking forward to being completely out of touch with "modern technology solutions."
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do we really want to send envoys to the outside world when the distro's still struggling to get over cultural baggage and drama from the early 2000s?

The developer clique won't even communicate with the forums here, having interfaces to the hysterical peanut gallery at large that the web has become won't add anything positive.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know... how about myspace!?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally see the Fediverse as growing, and I wouldn't mind a Gentoo mastodon setup that at the very least is a bot that posts the Gentoo news.

Diaspora has issues because it hasn't yet implemented activitypub (yes, it's not easy to get them to talk together, but hey, it needs time to mature). Also, diaspora has no API so until it has one, it's dead.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ali3nx wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gentoo/

Also supported by several Gentoo developers
I've been lurking there for some years now...
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erm67
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

moult wrote:
I personally see the Fediverse as growing, and I wouldn't mind a Gentoo mastodon setup that at the very least is a bot that posts the Gentoo news.

Diaspora has issues because it hasn't yet implemented activitypub (yes, it's not easy to get them to talk together, but hey, it needs time to mature). Also, diaspora has no API so until it has one, it's dead.

Or just turn tweets from the gentoo twitter feed into toots on a mastodon instance, a lot of people does, like:
https://github.com/cquest/tootbot
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion the site owners and datacenter need to be in a country which protects freedom of speech. It might be interesting to also have something decentralized hardware wise.

Personally I dislike a social media site in place of real forum software. So given the choice between ANYTHING in a social media paradigm vs real forum software like this site, I'd take this site. But the insanity on Facebook and Twitter and other mainstream social sites makes me interested in something a little less mainstream for social media anyway, so I'm looking.

My google skills are getting garbage when I try to search for social media sites which protect the freedom of speech, because there's too much noise. And probably because "freedom of speech" is three words which can be used out of sequence with very different meanings. So I started looking for alternative words that would mean the same thing.

While I don't advocate the topic, I substituted the "nsfw" for "freedom of speech" and got useful hits. Of course the topic in those hits is mostly about pornography rather than blowing shit up or racy comedy. But adult content creators are being moderated off of social media sites too, so hopefully not so many people will object to that comparison. So if you don't mind reading an article with "adult content" instead of "freedom of speech" and making a substitution in your head I have a link which gives some possibly viable social media sites which may work nicely for a Linux forum.

https://www.businessinsider.com/tumblr-alternatives-that-allow-nsfw-2018-12#newgrounds-1

I haven't finished the article but thought I could share it so others may get something from it. There are two ideas here that I find interesting.

First, it's the idea of a decentralized cryptographic server. Put multiple servers around the globe, they team up and you have a site. If one site is taken down by hackers or some political movement, you write it off and the others take up the slack until you find a new host. No downtime.

I also like the idea of mastodon.social although I have not found any hosted sites I really want to join yet. The organization is evidently based in Denmark, where it seems that there is more forceful support for free speech there than in the USA and GB. Mastodon has decentralized servers but evidently they're all on the same network, which presumably means "site" and "country." Not so keen on that part. But I like the description of how they do things.


I'm not really keen on a social media style of computer forum, my main reason for searching is because Facebook is getting a little too scary for me and I don't like some of the things happening in their management, mostly having to do with what this thread is talking about.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q1) Is there a need for some social media presence? We already have forums, irc, ml and all are under the control of Gentoo (less so IRC, but freenode is generally open)

Q2) if some presence on some 3rd party platform is needed, what need is it filling

Q3) Once the need is defined, what exists that fulfills it
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It appears to be "official" (the contact is pr) with 8,131 followers.

Need? No more than any other resource that is optional. For those who want to use it instead of an ml, irc or forum.

I have no idea what it is/was used for, but presumably the same as other options.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
It appears to be "official" (the contact is pr) with 8,131 followers.

Need? No more than any other resource that is optional. For those who want to use it instead of an ml, irc or forum.

I have no idea what it is/was used for, but presumably the same as other options.
:) just the system engineer in me coming out. Too often people go "you know what, we need a Kalman filter" ... but why?
"you know what, that LVDT interface should go to the controlFPGA" ... but why?

I call those lightning rod requirements as it is some thought of someone of influence to add something BUT then to architect the system around it to support its existence is a royal PITA...


The entire social media presence is the same thing
"we need twitter presence" ... but why?
"we need Facebook presence" ... but why?

That is answering a question that was never asked. Now a more suitable question might be "we need to ... " and the answer maybe facebook/twitter, but then the right tool to solve the need has been identified (although I don't see fb/twitter fixing a need).


So take GLSA announcements:
Gentoo needs means to report GLSA to its users so they can make informed decisions about security
Solution: GLSA tool run on an an ad-hoc basis, forum announcement, GLSA page. What about a twitter feed? makes sense -> Mastodon would be a viable use in this instance

Now I am sure the G+ group started simply because "Oh G+ exists, we someone should start a G+ group" again a lightning rod requirement. However, over the years its usage might show that something is needed that G+ fills so if that can be articulated then maybe a suitable alternative could be found. I suspect it will be more like "well I use G+/Facebook/Diaspora for social interactions so rather than jumping around I can stay on diaspora" which means it is a duplication of information
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
pjp wrote:
It appears to be "official" (the contact is pr) with 8,131 followers.

Need? No more than any other resource that is optional. For those who want to use it instead of an ml, irc or forum.

I have no idea what it is/was used for, but presumably the same as other options.
:) just the system engineer in me coming out. Too often people go "you know what, we need a Kalman filter" ... but why?
"you know what, that LVDT interface should go to the controlFPGA" ... but why?
You'd first have to understand why it was created. As no one participating in this thread appears to have that information, the next best thing is to understand the purpose. Never having used g+, I'm guessing it can be used by users to interact with each other. Hmm. That sounds a lot like ml, irc or a forum. But why do any of those exist? But why should they be at the exclusion of other resources people find valuable? But why object to something other people might choose to use and find valuable? Unless there's a monetary or in-kind donation involved, I can't think of a reason.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Naib wrote:
pjp wrote:
It appears to be "official" (the contact is pr) with 8,131 followers.

Need? No more than any other resource that is optional. For those who want to use it instead of an ml, irc or forum.

I have no idea what it is/was used for, but presumably the same as other options.
:) just the system engineer in me coming out. Too often people go "you know what, we need a Kalman filter" ... but why?
"you know what, that LVDT interface should go to the controlFPGA" ... but why?
You'd first have to understand why it was created. As no one participating in this thread appears to have that information, the next best thing is to understand the purpose. Never having used g+, I'm guessing it can be used by users to interact with each other. Hmm. That sounds a lot like ml, irc or a forum. But why do any of those exist? But why should they be at the exclusion of other resources people find valuable? But why object to something other people might choose to use and find valuable? Unless there's a monetary or in-kind donation involved, I can't think of a reason.
I agree. not saying block it but if one of these groups on whatever platform wants to be rubberstamped by Gentoo to come under its namespace, then a level of bureaucracy may become involved.
if someone wants to setup a social group on tumblr associated with gentoo well :) no one can really stop it and other gentoo users who are on tumblr could interact.

My only concern is setting up little echo-chambers and no easy way of disseminating information learn across these many platforms. One option is just sit back and see which one grows and then bring it into the fold somehow *IF* said platform permits this ( diaspora might be the only one)
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
My only concern is setting up little echo-chambers
Isn't that what exists? Unless something has changed, it has long been the norm that devs (mostly) don't use the forum.

Naib wrote:
and no easy way of disseminating information learn across these many platforms.
I would hope those involved with sending out official information are included in the decision making process.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Split off [split] In the weeds, ActivityPub and file sharing.

I tried to leave the more general comments here.

EDIT: And...

[split] What's wrong with Docker?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting discussion we have here. On g+ there is more and more material grounds for making informed decisions, and time is running out. Cf. g+ Mass migration community.

I'm on pluspora now because it seemed a no-brainer - many of those online friends I made at g+ moved there. FWIW, I'm this https://pluspora.com/people/da010950d6e70136b502005056264835 - add me if you like.

There apparently are no users tagged #gentoo yet ... however a growing number of posts tagged #gentoo at pluspora.

About running a new pod to join the fediverse, well, in theory, toungue-in-cheek mode, we could restart that Canterbury Initiative of old (tm) to have -user forums unite- distributions sorta centralize their efforts. Would suggest naming it canterburypod :lol: iff the city of Canterbury had no objections. Were we to have a crowdfunding here among the user base, guess I'd contribute a handful of $currency per month.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An "official" (but not verified) gentoo fediverse user appeared on fossdoton:


https://fosstodon.org/@gentoo
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couple of weeks into this thread a baseline appears to be:
* as to the original question, where will the 4k+ users go once g+ closes, we have no answer. Guessing that most clicked "join" there because the community "was just where they were already" might imply those are going away, and since they might be connected to Gentoo already in any of the other ways possible, nobody would be able to measure the effect. Many might just fall away, presumably because forum too cumbersome to use
** anybody care enough to have contents exported from g+ and imported to somewhere else once a platform for this emerges?
* diaspora* and ActivityPub or forks of this are hot candidates for a future, with no one wanting to put on these shoes this might never happen
** in a like-minded fashion, I personally appreciate @moult's initiative to revive the Planet Gentoo _for users_ - we can take more visibility as an ecosystem of distributions

So without much ambition here is what I found:
* Planet Gentoo for users, http://planetlarry.org/ with 2 blogs participating atm
* the Gentoo on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/Gentoo has some 8.2k subscribers
* channels mentioned here https://gentoo.org/get-involved/
* this very forum https://forums.gentoo.org/ boasts some 5.8 Million postings, what the actual... ferociously loyal user base. I found threads from 2002

What is your addition to this list?

Anecdotal comment, interestingly enough, another formerly g+- based community I'm with (of some four digit members) moved their presence to a _traditional forum_ like this one :)

I might just add a few links over at g+ so peple can find their way around.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raddaqii wrote:
Many might just fall away, presumably because forum too cumbersome to use

raddaqii wrote:
So without much ambition here is what I found:
* Planet Gentoo for users, http://planetlarry.org/ with 2 blogs participating atm
* the Gentoo on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/Gentoo has some 8.2k subscribers
How were/are g+, reddit and blogs easier to use when seeking help compared with this forum? That's just not something I understand. Being able to provide log output isn't happening from someone's cell phone while they're commuting on a bus*. If it's just for inane social gibber jabber, then never mind, but then a blog doesn't seem useful for that either.

* Well, sometimes it seems people might, and it shows, so I ignore those posts.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The official gentoo account in the fediverse has already 330 followers ...... not bad since it was announced in Januar 2019

It's not very active, but the whole fediverse isn't:
https://fosstodon.org/@gentoo

BTW according the most recent stats diaspora has ~660000 users but only ~60000 are active, it's basically dead.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
How were/are g+, reddit and blogs easier to use when seeking help compared with this forum? That's just not something I understand. Being able to provide log output isn't happening from someone's cell phone while they're commuting on a bus*. If it's just for inane social gibber jabber, then never mind, but then a blog doesn't seem useful for that either.

* Well, sometimes it seems people might, and it shows, so I ignore those posts.


I like how single-minded that view is. Me, I just hadn't thought of it this way. :D Seriously, very very little irony here - with this community being about Gentoo linux just by being logged into some Android device you might not automagically qualify to contribute in technically a meaningful way.

However, using $community for non-technical purposes is a possibility, and should stay accessible that way. Using tapatalk for this forum may not be the proper suggestion.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raddaqii wrote:
I like how single-minded that view is. Me, I just hadn't thought of it this way. :D Seriously, very very little irony here - with this community being about Gentoo linux just by being logged into some Android device you might not automagically qualify to contribute in technically a meaningful way.

However, using $community for non-technical purposes is a possibility, and should stay accessible that way. Using tapatalk for this forum may not be the proper suggestion.
I'm not sure I understand. Are you indicating that the main purpose was/is not focused on using and maintaining one or more Gentoo based systems? If that isn't what brings together the community, then how is it related to Gentoo?
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