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So thunderbird 60 requires gtk+3 and dbus?
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tld
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:15 pm    Post subject: So thunderbird 60 requires gtk+3 and dbus? Reply with quote

You know...there was a time when I enjoyed by system...that's getting to be long gone. I literally dread every update now because every one in recent memory has been an endless battle to keep bloated shit of my system </rant>. Some time ago I started compiling a few packages for which I used to use the -bin version and was able to get rid of dbus. I use palemoon in place of FF now, and I've compiled libreoffice (despite the insane amount of time it took on this system) and thunderbird.

So now I see that thunderbird 52.x is masked for removal (and apparently has security issues etc), and unless I'm missing something, TB 60.x has a hard requirement for gtk+3 which has a hard requirement for dbus. First of all I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something there. Currently I have only gtk+-2 installed. If that's the case I'm frankly better off just moving back to using -bin packages with those dependencies, because apparently thunderbird 60 also requires clang and rust...neither of which I currently have. The f****** source download for rust alone is apparently 194 MB ffs. I'd probably die of old age before those even compiled.

Just wanted to make sure I was correct on all that before I decide what to do. I need TB for sure. I'm almost afraid to even see what TB 60 is like, as I wouldn't doubt that the Mozilla devs have probably dragged that down into the same shit hole as they have with FF.

Damn this bullshit just drags me down...and for all the massive useless bloat and BS...none of these apps have actually improved for me at all in recent memory.

Tom
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't look like dbus was being mandated by gtk3, at least as far as the ebuild.
And I don't see gtk+:3 requiring it. It does use gdbus-codegen, but that's not dbus.


Note: I still use TB 45.6 as I unmasked it (yes aware of potential security problems) so I've not kept up with the latest shenanigans from Mozilla and company.

Edit to add: I can't say that I'm impressed with what it DOES require to build though. clang, llvm, rust :roll:
Code:
sys-devel/llvm-common-6.0.1
net-libs/http-parser-2.8.1:0/2.8.0
dev-libs/jemalloc-3.6.0
net-libs/libssh2-1.8.0-r1
sys-devel/clang-common-6.0.1
dev-libs/nspr-4.19
app-text/hunspell-1.6.2-r1:0/1.6
app-eselect/eselect-rust-0.3_pre20150428
sys-devel/llvm-6.0.1:6
sys-devel/clang-6.0.1:6
sys-libs/compiler-rt-6.0.1:6.0.1
sys-libs/compiler-rt-sanitizers-6.0.1:6.0.1
sys-libs/libomp-6.0.1
sys-devel/clang-runtime-6.0.1:6.0.1
dev-libs/nss-3.37.3
dev-lang/rust-1.29.1-r1:stable/1.29
virtual/rust-1.29.1
dev-util/cargo-0.30.0
virtual/cargo-1.29.1
x11-libs/gtk+-3.22.30:3
mail-client/thunderbird-60.3.0


When I can no longer use the old TB that I have, I'll hunt around for another mail client instead of the cluster-fsck that TB has become
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AJM
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Mozilla have ruined Thunderbird as well as Firefox - not that I was ever a big fan of TB mind you, but it was good to have a decent semi-sane open source mail client available on all the most common platforms.

Anyway, having tested an awful lot of mail clients over the years I can recommend claws-mail as being the least bad overall - the build is very configurable and it's easy to whittle out all the rubbish you don't want. It performs far better for me than TB ever did too.

Over the past 5 to 10 years I've noticed that across the software world (not just the free software world, either) there's been a huge amount of churn and bloating with almost zero real improvement in functionality. The days when I eagerly read through changelogs and found useful new features are long gone...
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tld
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
Didn't look like dbus was being mandated by gtk3, at least as far as the ebuild.
And I don't see gtk+:3 requiring it. It does use gdbus-codegen, but that's not dbus.
Yea...it definitely doesn't require it directly. Here's a part of the emerge output with --tree:
Code:
[nomerge       ]  x11-libs/gtk+-3.22.30:3::gentoo [2.24.32:2::gentoo] USE="X cups introspection (-aqua) -broadway -cloudprint -colord -examples -test -vim-syntax -wayland -xinerama"
[ebuild  N     ]   app-accessibility/at-spi2-atk-2.24.1:2::gentoo  USE="-test" 302 KiB
[ebuild  N     ]    app-accessibility/at-spi2-core-2.24.1:2::gentoo  USE="X introspection" 442 KiB
[ebuild  N     ]     sys-apps/dbus-1.10.24::gentoo  USE="X -debug -doc -elogind (-selinux) -static-libs -systemd -test -user-session" 1,945 KiB
[ebuild  NS    ]      app-text/docbook-xml-dtd-4.4-r2:4.4::gentoo [4.1.2-r6:4.1.2::gentoo, 4.2-r2:4.2::gentoo, 4.3-r1:4.3::gentoo] 94 KiB
[ebuild     U  ]      app-text/xmlto-0.0.28-r1::gentoo [0.0.26-r1::gentoo] USE="text -latex" 125 KiB

It appears that it's required by the app-accessibility stuff, which is required for gtk+3 as long as the X USE flag is set. I mean ffs.

Tom
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tld
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJM wrote:
Over the past 5 to 10 years I've noticed that across the software world (not just the free software world, either) there's been a huge amount of churn and bloating with almost zero real improvement in functionality. The days when I eagerly read through changelogs and found useful new features are long gone...
1000% spot on. I've also noticed that any project that mature and "just plain works" gets branded as being "unmaintained" as long as nobody happens to be "fixing" (translate: churning and breaking) it. I get the impression that's what's happening with gtk+2.

Sad stuff.
Tom
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, if you aren't using the remove at-spi patch then it will indeed pull in dbus.

Patch to remove the need for the at-spi bridge:
Code:
 $ cat /etc/portage/patches/x11-libs/gtk+:3/gtk-test.patch
## Remove gtk3-atk-bridge support to avoid unwanted dbus dependency.

 
--- 1/configure.ac.orig   2018-10-22 09:23:08.542046885 -0500
+++ 2/configure.ac   2018-10-22 09:37:03.335514971 -0500
@@ -1390,14 +1390,10 @@
 
 
 ########################################
-# Check for Accessibility Toolkit flags
+# Removed the at-spi (atk-bridge) support
 ########################################
 
-if test x$enable_x11_backend = xyes; then
-   ATK_PACKAGES="atk atk-bridge-2.0"
-else
-   ATK_PACKAGES="atk"
-fi
+ATK_PACKAGES="atk"
 
 PKG_CHECK_MODULES(ATK, $ATK_PACKAGES)
 
## Remove gtk3-atk-bridge support to avoid unwanted dbus dependency.

--- 1/gtk/a11y/gtkaccessibility.c.orig   2018-10-22 09:23:50.806564701 -0500
+++ 2/gtk/a11y/gtkaccessibility.c   2018-10-22 09:33:39.019965471 -0500
@@ -37,10 +37,6 @@
 #include <gtk/gtktogglebutton.h>
 #include <gtk/gtkaccessible.h>
 
-#ifdef GDK_WINDOWING_X11
-#include <atk-bridge.h>
-#endif
-
 static gboolean gail_focus_watcher      (GSignalInvocationHint *ihint,
                                          guint                  n_param_values,
                                          const GValue          *param_values,
@@ -988,9 +984,5 @@
   _gtk_accessibility_override_atk_util ();
   do_window_event_initialization ();
 
-#ifdef GDK_WINDOWING_X11
-  atk_bridge_adaptor_init (NULL, NULL);
-#endif
-
   atk_misc_instance = g_object_new (GTK_TYPE_MISC_IMPL, NULL);
 }


Edit to add: this only works on 3.24.0 and up (without slight modification to the earlier gtk+-3* ebuilds)

ETA2: to make it work with gtk+-3.22.30, for example, copy the gtk ebuild to your local portage and apply this diff
Code:
$ diff -u gtk+-3.22.30.ebuild /usr/local/portage/x11-libs/gtk+/
--- gtk+-3.22.30.ebuild   2018-10-06 19:39:31.000000000 -0500
+++ /usr/local/portage/x11-libs/gtk+/gtk+-3.22.30.ebuild   2018-10-23 07:16:17.134775867 -0500
@@ -3,8 +3,9 @@
 
 EAPI=6
 GNOME2_LA_PUNT="yes"
+GNOME2_EAUTORECONF="yes"
 
-inherit autotools flag-o-matic gnome2 multilib virtualx multilib-minimal
+inherit flag-o-matic gnome2 multilib virtualx multilib-minimal
 
 DESCRIPTION="Gimp ToolKit +"
 HOMEPAGE="https://www.gtk.org/"
@@ -123,7 +124,6 @@
    # Fix broken autotools logic
    eapply "${FILESDIR}"/${PN}-3.22.20-libcloudproviders-automagic.patch
 
-   eautoreconf
    gnome2_src_prepare
 }

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Acer laptop E5-575, i3-7100u - i965, alsa
---both---
5.0.13 zen kernel, profile 17.1 (no-pie & modified) amd64-no-multilib
gcc 8.2.0, eudev, openrc, openbox, palemoon


Last edited by Anon-E-moose on Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:55 pm; edited 2 times in total
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tld
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
Edit to add: I can't say that I'm impressed with what it DOES require to build though. clang, llvm, rust :roll:
Tell me about it! I already have llvm and compiling that is a nightmare. I don't have clang or rust. The source download for rust alone borders on 10x the size of llvm's. I mean for the sweet love of God.

Tom
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tld
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
Yes, if you aren't using the remove at-spi patch then it will indeed pull in dbus.
Thanks! I'll keep that in mind...and thanks for the note about gtk+3.24.0. Maybe I'll just use that when the time comes.

Tom
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I would do is see what "security issues" there are with 52.9 and then probably unmask it.

I find that many security issues don't affect me at all, because of the way I use the software. YMMV
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
What I would do is see what "security issues" there are with 52.9 and then probably unmask it.

I find that many security issues don't affect me at all, because of the way I use the software. YMMV


Said-security issues are often assuming people using Windows without proper user privilege separation I'm guessing.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://blog.mozilla.org/thunderbird/2018/08/whats-new-in-thunderbird-60/

https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/60.0/releasenotes/
Logo changed, Whoopee! Looks the same to me.
"Proton Look" Another new look - ugh!
Some UI changes that might be good - if they don't have bugs!
Lots of calendar changes. I don't use Calendar.
"IMPORTANT: Add-ons not marked as compatible with Thunderbird 60 by their authors will be disabled (this can be reverted via preference extensions.strictCompatibility)" - probably means my Classic TB2 add-ons no longer work.

"Native notifications on Linux are now re-enabled" IOW dbus.

Security fixes - https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/advisories/mfsa2018-19/
I don't open emails from unknown entities. Not particularly worried. As mentioned above, malware probably targets Windows anyway.

Like Anon-a-moose, I run Palemoon. In my case primarily for "the Fox 2 the Moon" and oldbar add-ons to keep the pre-australis look and feel.
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tld
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tony for that second edit about the patch! For the time being I'm just sticking with 52.9.1.

AJM wrote:
Anyway, having tested an awful lot of mail clients over the years I can recommend claws-mail as being the least bad overall - the build is very configurable and it's easy to whittle out all the rubbish you don't want. It performs far better for me than TB ever did too.

Wow...was just checking the web site for that. Looks very promising. I also see that it doesn't appear to have anything ugly in terms of dependencies either and apparently works with gtk+2. Thanks! May check that out.

Tom
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: So thunderbird 60 requires gtk+3 and dbus? Reply with quote

tld wrote:
You know...there was a time when I enjoyed by system...that's getting to be long gone.
Tom


mail-client/claws-mail or mail-client/sylpheed are fast efficient and last but not least very useful.
For claws-mail, https://github.com/dinhviethoa/libetpan and commit 9e6d0bb29a56a918878c89c10d7be9d779904779 brings some TLS corrections
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey,

Just wanted to say I tried claws-mail due to multiple people in this thread suggesting it, and for me, it works really well. I dont really mind gtk3, rust or dbus requirements for thunderbird, but it sometimes "freezes" for multiple seconds and that's really annoying. Also, after being on for some hours it stops updating my mailbox; I need to either manually refresh or restart it to get newest mail.

I'm gonna keep using claws-mail for a while to see if it suits my needs. It also builds a lot faster than thunderbird. Thanks!
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tld
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly, the parts of this thread about the compile requirements of TB etc led me to discover that I can get rid of llvm by simply recompiling mesa without the llvm USE flag:

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1087308-start-0.html

I just recompiled mesa without it and the programs that use it seem fine for sure. That POS takes forever for me to compile and I'll be really glad to get rid of it. I'm hoping to be able to do the same on my MythTV systems. That's all primarily related to 3D graphics correct? For my MythTV systems the important stuff going on there is all VDPAU being used with the nVidia proprietary driver. I'd assume it's not related to that in any way(?).

Sorry for the OT tangent.
Tom

EDIT: Interestingly I just realized that on my MythTV frontend I don't even have the vdpau USE flag set for mesa...though it is set for MythTV itself. That tells me that mesa apparently has nothing to do with actual video playback in MythTV.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Juippisi wrote:
Just wanted to say I tried claws-mail due to multiple people in this thread suggesting it, and for me, it works really well. I dont really mind gtk3, rust or dbus requirements for thunderbird, but it sometimes "freezes" for multiple seconds and that's really annoying. Also, after being on for some hours it stops updating my mailbox; I need to either manually refresh or restart it to get newest mail.

I'm gonna keep using claws-mail for a while to see if it suits my needs. It also builds a lot faster than thunderbird. Thanks!

I was trying to decide between claws-mail and sylpheed, which I have used in the past. There were much fewer dependencies for sylpheed, so I went with it. Built in less than 5 minutes!
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