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ZappingLinux
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 Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:31 am Post subject: Question before I may potentially screw my system |
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I want to do some development for the gameboy advance in C and assembly and for this I need to install a development library. However this library (devkitARM) is managed by pacman (the arch package manager). Now I saw that this manager is actually available for gentoo for some reason. But I am reluctant to install it because
1): it is in ~amd64
and
2): i don't know pacman or what will happen if I do install it.
So basically I want to know if pacman and portage/emerge can coexist together or if there is a better way to do this.
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grooveman
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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I can't say for sure about pacman, but I do know you can use RPM. I've done it many times with 3rd party, proprietary software that doesn't give source, or wont give stand-alone binaries/libraries.
The thing to keep in mind, however (whether you use straight rpm, or try pacman) is that portage and the other package manger system will be oblivious to each other. So, whenever I do an rpm install, I almost always have to do a --nodeps option. Then it is on you to determine whether your system has the right dependencies via portage. So there may be some trouble-shooting.
Personally, I'd be a little scared of running pacman, because it will try to resolve dependencies... and you could conceivably wind up stomping on packages supplied by portage. Again, I haven't tried this, but it would concern me. And of course, at your next emerge @world, you might stomp on what pacman supplied. RPM is a simpler creature, if you can get away with using it.
There is also the possibility of using rpm2targz as well, which would basically ditch the rpm dependency database, and just give you the contents of the package. Again, it would be on you to resolve dependencies through portage, at that point -- but at least if you do this in portage, you don't have to worry about stomping on packages.
My thoughts anyway...
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ZappingLinux
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| grooveman wrote: | I can't say for sure about pacman, but I do know you can use RPM. I've done it many times with 3rd party, proprietary software that doesn't give source, or wont give stand-alone binaries/libraries.
The thing to keep in mind, however (whether you use straight rpm, or try pacman) is that portage and the other package manger system will be oblivious to each other. So, whenever I do an rpm install, I almost always have to do a --nodeps option. Then it is on you to determine whether your system has the right dependencies via portage. So there may be some trouble-shooting.
Personally, I'd be a little scared of running pacman, because it will try to resolve dependencies... and you could conceivably wind up stomping on packages supplied by portage. Again, I haven't tried this, but it would concern me. And of course, at your next emerge @world, you might stomp on what pacman supplied. RPM is a simpler creature, if you can get away with using it.
There is also the possibility of using rpm2targz as well, which would basically ditch the rpm dependency database, and just give you the contents of the package. Again, it would be on you to resolve dependencies through portage, at that point -- but at least if you do this in portage, you don't have to worry about stomping on packages.
My thoughts anyway... |
I was assuming an utter nightmare would take place the moment I would emerge pacman for this single library. The thing is they do have buildscripts for building the libraries yourself (https://github.com/devkitPro/buildscripts) but it is a disaster as well. I think this sucks a lot... Like why would anyone want to have pacman on their systems if it would cause nothing but trouble anyway? Why is it even in testing at all? It is such a shame though that the game development library that has become THE standard for homebrew is not present in gentoo. (if you are curious, this is what I am talking about https://devkitpro.org/ and this was the guide they told me to follow https://devkitpro.org/wiki/devkitPro_pacman which I obviously didn't because I thought it was shady)
Also I haven't heard of RPM before. I just think it is annoying that I have to go out of harms way to start doing a fun project which doesn't have to be difficult 
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mike155
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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AFAIK, pacman packages are normal tarballs.
I would use tar to unpack the pacman package to /tmp and copy the unpacked files manually to the location where I need them (most probably /opt or /usr/local). Don't forget to check and adjust file owners and permissions. |
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ZappingLinux
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| mike155 wrote: | AFAIK, pacman packages are normal tarballs.
I would use tar to unpack the pacman package to /tmp and copy the unpacked files manually to the location where I need them (most probably /opt or /usr/local). Don't forget to check and adjust file owners and permissions. |
But where can I find these tarballs? I know absolutely 0 about Arch...
EDIT: I should have known this was AUR.... I completely forgot its existence. Well of to a journey of figuring this out.
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ct85711
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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A possibility that you could do (a better option), is to use the ebuild in one of the overlays. From what it looks like the sunrise overlay does have the devkitarm-bin-41 ebuild available, but it seems the sunrise overlay may be discontinued. So what I suggest you do, is try that ebuild, and see if it works; if it does work, copy it to a local overlay so you can keep a copy.
http://gentoo-overlays.zugaina.org/sunrise/dev-util.html.en
https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/sunrise.git/ |
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jonathan183
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:01 am Post subject: Re: Question before I may potentially screw my system |
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| ZappingLinux wrote: | | So basically I want to know if pacman and portage/emerge can coexist together or if there is a better way to do this. |
I suggest you either do this in a VM or chroot - the same applies to install from source given the health warning on the site you linked to ... |
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ZappingLinux
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:47 am Post subject: |
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I will have to look into it. Personally I have never used overlays apart from that one time I wanted gnome with openrc support so I will have to look back into how exactly it works (and what impact it would have on my system with regards to maintenance). So I think I will configure a VM and try out all the weird options. I already posted in the DevKitPro forums that I find their suggestion somewhat strange and if they elaborate more on the usage of pacman on a gentoo system because they don't discuss anything other than "install it and follow the page" which is a red flag in my book. But thank you for the suggestion I really appreciate it! I have been looking around a bit more and it seems that overall game development for existing (and old) console hardware is very scarce on Gentoo. Which I think is a shame but it's the way it is. 
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ZappingLinux
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Question before I may potentially screw my system |
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| jonathan183 wrote: | | ZappingLinux wrote: | | So basically I want to know if pacman and portage/emerge can coexist together or if there is a better way to do this. |
I suggest you either do this in a VM or chroot - the same applies to install from source given the health warning on the site you linked to ... |
I have no doubt that it's legitimate but I have my doubts on the documentation and the knowledge the maintainers have on gentoo. I think their explanation is a little bit too short and it lacks proper in depth information as a whole.
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jonathan183
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Question before I may potentially screw my system |
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| ZappingLinux wrote: | | jonathan183 wrote: | | ZappingLinux wrote: | | So basically I want to know if pacman and portage/emerge can coexist together or if there is a better way to do this. |
I suggest you either do this in a VM or chroot - the same applies to install from source given the health warning on the site you linked to ... |
I have no doubt that it's legitimate but I have my doubts on the documentation and the knowledge the maintainers have on gentoo. I think their explanation is a little bit too short and it lacks proper in depth information as a whole. |
I responded to the | Quote: | | or if there is a better way to do this |
of your op ...
Arch is a binary distro, if I were going to use its package manager to install software on Gentoo I would either do so in a VM or chroot - I would not let pacman install packages directly onto a Gentoo system. If I were going to install the software I would go with an Arch VM so that if there are any issues help is likely to be available. Next best option would be Arch in a chroot. There is a warning about having no support for the install from source, so any problems I suspect you are on your own as far as the producers of the software are concerned. You can go the overlay route but that will limit most support to people who are both using Gentoo and the software, I have no idea what sort of number of people that involves but I think it will be less than for an Arch VM.
Since it is your system you get to choose which way to go ... but I would have thought fixing a VM is much less painful ... |
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mike155
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ZappingLinux wrote: |
But where can I find these tarballs? I know absolutely 0 about Arch...
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I don't understand. Please explain what you want to do.
Do you think that a package 'devkitARM' exists in pacman format, but you don't know where you can download it? And do you think that pacman will automatically download (and install) it as soon as you have installed pacman and started 'pacman --please-fetch-and-install devkitARM' ???
Do you know the web site: https://www.archlinux.de/packages? There doesn't seem to be package called 'devkitARM'. |
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ZappingLinux
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Question before I may potentially screw my system |
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| jonathan183 wrote: | | ZappingLinux wrote: | | jonathan183 wrote: | | ZappingLinux wrote: | | So basically I want to know if pacman and portage/emerge can coexist together or if there is a better way to do this. |
I suggest you either do this in a VM or chroot - the same applies to install from source given the health warning on the site you linked to ... |
I have no doubt that it's legitimate but I have my doubts on the documentation and the knowledge the maintainers have on gentoo. I think their explanation is a little bit too short and it lacks proper in depth information as a whole. |
I responded to the | Quote: | | or if there is a better way to do this |
of your op ...
Arch is a binary distro, if I were going to use its package manager to install software on Gentoo I would either do so in a VM or chroot - I would not let pacman install packages directly onto a Gentoo system. If I were going to install the software I would go with an Arch VM so that if there are any issues help is likely to be available. Next best option would be Arch in a chroot. There is a warning about having no support for the install from source, so any problems I suspect you are on your own as far as the producers of the software are concerned. You can go the overlay route but that will limit most support to people who are both using Gentoo and the software, I have no idea what sort of number of people that involves but I think it will be less than for an Arch VM.
Since it is your system you get to choose which way to go ... but I would have thought fixing a VM is much less painful ... |
Fixing a vm is much less painfull indeed but the problem is that its no final or ideal solution. I dont want to spend my time coding in a vm or manually exporting the imported binaries to my host system. I have just finished a gentoo kernel config for a vm and I will let it compile xfce. Tomorrow I will just follow their page in order to see if it is something sensible at all. If its a mess I will try the overlay route on the VM first and if that works I will apply it to my main system. I dont know arch linux and i dont want to learn how it works in order to start developing a gba game. If it just doesnt work, i will have to find another way to develop a gba game on a gentoo system. There isn't a lot of support for this stuff anyway. I mean I have searched quite a bit but nowhere in the gentoo forums could I find a post of someone developing a game for an old console.
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ct85711
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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You are looking on the wrong side on arch, as arch has 2 repositories, the usual pacman and AUR (a user/community repository, pretty much a non-official overlay). Devkit is available on arch's AUR side, looks like current version being 48.1.
On the other hand, the biggest reason that everyone is hesitant on using pacman on Gentoo, is more of because pacman is a package manager like Gentoo. The issue is that neither of them will communicate between each other. So anything pacman installs, portage will not know anything about (portage considers the unknown files as not existing). This becomes a bigger issue, on file conflicts in that pacman will be more than happy to install a library which may conflict with a package from Gentoo later on (as collision conflict, linking anomalies, magic dependencies, to even worse case of overwriting existing files with different versions).
Either way, I recommend you use the ebuild in the sunrise repo, and only keyword that package (even if it is old). If the ebuild works, you can see about modifing it, to use the newest version (a lot of times, all you need to do is copy it to a new file with the version updated, and maybe update any dependency version as necessary). At least using the ebuild from the sunrise overlay, is that portage can manage that package. |
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mike155
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ct85711 wrote: |
You are looking on the wrong side on arch, as arch has 2 repositories, the usual pacman and AUR (a user/community repository, pretty much a non-official overlay). Devkit is available on arch's AUR side, looks like current version being 48.1.
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Thanks. I finally found it: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/?O=0&SeB=nd&K=devkitARM
I tried to download the packages manually - it's not possible. The download links point to nowhere... The project seems to be in a bad state and looks unmaintained.
@ZappingLinux: I doubt that pacman will be able to help you. If we can't download the packages manually, it's unlikely that pacman will be able to do that. I agree with ct85711's recommendation. |
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ZappingLinux
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Joined: 13 Oct 2017
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ct85711 wrote: |
You are looking on the wrong side on arch, as arch has 2 repositories, the usual pacman and AUR (a user/community repository, pretty much a non-official overlay). Devkit is available on arch's AUR side, looks like current version being 48.1.
On the other hand, the biggest reason that everyone is hesitant on using pacman on Gentoo, is more of because pacman is a package manager like Gentoo. The issue is that neither of them will communicate between each other. So anything pacman installs, portage will not know anything about (portage considers the unknown files as not existing). This becomes a bigger issue, on file conflicts in that pacman will be more than happy to install a library which may conflict with a package from Gentoo later on (as collision conflict, linking anomalies, magic dependencies, to even worse case of overwriting existing files with different versions).
Either way, I recommend you use the ebuild in the sunrise repo, and only keyword that package (even if it is old). If the ebuild works, you can see about modifing it, to use the newest version (a lot of times, all you need to do is copy it to a new file with the version updated, and maybe update any dependency version as necessary). At least using the ebuild from the sunrise overlay, is that portage can manage that package. |
Thanks for the reply. I have exams this week as well so my mind kind of drifted. I will try out the overlay route. The VM didnt work out at all. It just didn't function properly and as expected some weird errors popped up. I will have dig into overlays and ebuilds and whatnot as I have little experience with those tbh. But should be fine. At least Gentoo has good documentation on that unlike a certain development library that has no documentation on itself. I tried to post twice in those forums but the mods just didnt approve it. Sigh...
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ZappingLinux
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| mike155 wrote: | | ct85711 wrote: |
You are looking on the wrong side on arch, as arch has 2 repositories, the usual pacman and AUR (a user/community repository, pretty much a non-official overlay). Devkit is available on arch's AUR side, looks like current version being 48.1.
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Thanks. I finally found it: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/?O=0&SeB=nd&K=devkitARM
I tried to download the packages manually - it's not possible. The download links point to nowhere... The project seems to be in a bad state and looks unmaintained.
@ZappingLinux: I doubt that pacman will be able to help you. If we can't download the packages manually, it's unlikely that pacman will be able to do that. I agree with ct85711's recommendation. |
Yeah I will! I will have to look into ebuilds and whatnot though as I havent used one before apart from that one time gnome with openrc thing.
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