Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
Leaving Gentoo for Arch
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
lord_khelben
n00b
n00b


Joined: 22 Jan 2017
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
Yeah, but they still have PA as a part of installation. Slack is not Gentoo, you can't turn parts you don't want off that easy. They integrated PA because of bluez5 had PA as hard dependency.


If you run -current, there are also pure-alsa versions of packages for some time now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bghoons
n00b
n00b


Joined: 04 May 2015
Posts: 35
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Leaving Gentoo for Arch Reply with quote

ayeyes wrote:
[Moderator edit: Changed title to try to avoid disturbing readers. Original title was Going to die this night. -Hu]

By my own hand. Running Arch now... Gentoo is great, if one doesn't have OCD that's all I have can say about that. Good bye!


This verse comes to mind:

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us:
but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
--1 John 2:19

The great thing about Linux is that there are versions to suit just about anyone's differing tastes.
Please tell us in a few months how much greener the grass is over there.

Gentoo ~ The Future Is Just A Compile Away
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 17452

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Anon-E-moose wrote:
Good luck.

Gentoo isn't for everyone, it does have a (sometimes steep) learning curve.


Very much this. It takes quite a bit of reading and google-fu to get comfortable with it.
Has it gotten more complicated to start with? I've never understood the perception that it is difficult or takes a long time to learn. I would say that the first install takes more patience and actual reading, but I found it to be pretty easy. And that was when stage1 was the standard starting point.

The only "concern" I have is that every now and again I stumble upon something that changed years ago, but the old way was still working. I'm hoping I don't get bit by something.
_________________
Slowly I turned. Step by step.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anon-E-moose
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 3484
Location: Dallas area

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember when gentoo (don't remember what the original name was) was starting up, downloading source over a modem, compiling on slow, single processor machine.
Of course I was used to rolling my own anyway, as I had converted early on from RH (when they only sold cd's) to a LFS type system.
So over time it's gotten easier, the best part (IMO) is the package manager makes it relatively easy to create ebuild and keeps track of files to remove when you uninstall or upgrade a package.
_________________
Asus m5a99fx, FX 8320 - nouveau & radeon, oss4
Acer laptop E5-575, i3-7100u - i965, alsa
---both---
4.14.62 kernel, profile 17.0 (no-pie) amd64-no-multilib
gcc 7.3.0, eudev, openrc, openbox, palemoon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
duane
n00b
n00b


Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Posts: 29
Location: Oklahoma City

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the arch pkgbuilds are a lot easier for me to follow than ebuilds. Of course they don't have to do as much.

And the last time I had to cross compile something for windows, I wasted days trying unsuccessfully to set it up on gentoo. It took me five minutes with arch, and it "just worked". I even ended up copying the arch cross compiling directories to gentoo rather than go back and figure out what went wrong.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tony0945
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Illinois, USA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
The only "concern" I have is that every now and again I stumble upon something that changed years ago, but the old way was still working. I'm hoping I don't get bit by something.

I'm sure you have some sort of software engineering background like me. That made Gentoo exciting and understandable. People coming from Windows or Ubunto or RedHat and are non-technical have a much steeper learning curve and usually don't really want to make choices. They don't want to modify their engine; they just want to drive their car or preferably have someone drive it for them.

In a real sense, by making those initial choices you are designing your personal system, not just deciding what optional packages to install.
There are those who think there should be one monolithic system with your only major choice being being do you want KDE or Gnome.
This is akin to "do you want WinMe or Win2000?" which became just "do you want Win10 or Win10"?

Chiefly, the reason I stick with Gentoo is that I like to tinker with my boxes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 747
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Has it gotten more complicated to start with? I've never understood the perception that it is difficult or takes a long time to learn. I would say that the first install takes more patience and actual reading, but I found it to be pretty easy. And that was when stage1 was the standard starting point.

The only "concern" I have is that every now and again I stumble upon something that changed years ago, but the old way was still working. I'm hoping I don't get bit by something.


There are more choices and options when installing now. The big one back in the old days was LILO or GRUB. Now it's UEFI or MBR, 4 different bootloaders, OpenRC or SystemD, more file system choices...

I wouldn't say it's more difficult, if anything it is more flexible.
_________________
People Of Love

Kindness Evokes Kindness

Peace Emits Positive Energy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
duane
n00b
n00b


Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Posts: 29
Location: Oklahoma City

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Has it gotten more complicated to start with? I've never understood the perception that it is difficult or takes a long time to learn. I would say that the first install takes more patience and actual reading, but I found it to be pretty easy. And that was when stage1 was the standard starting point.


I don't think the installation is difficult. However, I'm surprised that configuring your kernel is still recommended when first installing. I tell people to use genkernel until the system's up and running. Then they can go back and make a custom kernel. I wouldn't be surprised if that turns off a lot of people.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 747
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

duane wrote:
pjp wrote:
Has it gotten more complicated to start with? I've never understood the perception that it is difficult or takes a long time to learn. I would say that the first install takes more patience and actual reading, but I found it to be pretty easy. And that was when stage1 was the standard starting point.


I don't think the installation is difficult. However, I'm surprised that configuring your kernel is still recommended when first installing. I tell people to use genkernel until the system's up and running. Then they can go back and make a custom kernel. I wouldn't be surprised if that turns off a lot of people.


The problem with genkernel is that it requires util-linux to be built with USE="static-libs*".
_________________
People Of Love

Kindness Evokes Kindness

Peace Emits Positive Energy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 17452

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony0945 wrote:
pjp wrote:
The only "concern" I have is that every now and again I stumble upon something that changed years ago, but the old way was still working. I'm hoping I don't get bit by something.

I'm sure you have some sort of software engineering background like me.
With Linux at the time, I'd never used it professionally. I had done minor SA work on a SVRmumble UNIX. I'd briefly used COHERENT from MWC (actually, just had it installed. Never did much with it). Similar with I think a Slackware. I noticed an article about Stampede Linux, and kept an eye on it for a while, but it never materialized (or maybe I lost track of it). The first time I could get modem connectivity was with Caldera. But again, didn't do much with it. Tried Debian after that, didn't care for the community at the time, and really haven't given it another chance. Eventually I landed on some version of RedHat and was using that reluctantly until I discovered Gentoo.

Tony0945 wrote:
That made Gentoo exciting and understandable. People coming from Windows or Ubunto or RedHat and are non-technical have a much steeper learning curve and usually don't really want to make choices. They don't want to modify their engine; they just want to drive their car or preferably have someone drive it for them.
Then they're making the wrong choice. The other issue is people choosing to make too many unnecessary choices. I go with defaults unless I have a reason not to. I run stable except on a minimal per-package basis only, and then only reluctantly (I tried system-wide once, undid that and no plans to try again). Just because you can turn a knob, doesn't mean you should.


Muso wrote:
There are more choices and options when installing now. The big one back in the old days was LILO or GRUB. Now it's UEFI or MBR, 4 different bootloaders, OpenRC or SystemD, more file system choices...

I wouldn't say it's more difficult, if anything it is more flexible.
It was quite a while before I tried ext4. ext3 was not presenting any stability issues. And now that I look, there seem to be far too may fs types in Linux these days (binfmt_misc, cgroup_root, cpu, cpuacct, cpuset, debugfs, devpts, devtmpfs, freezer, fusectl, mqueue, none, openrc, proc, sysfs, tmpfs). And I only recently gave in to using Grub 2.

I guess I've generally preferred a stable system so I could do other things rather than have a system to jack around with for no apparent reason.


duane wrote:
I don't think the installation is difficult. However, I'm surprised that configuring your kernel is still recommended when first installing. I tell people to use genkernel until the system's up and running. Then they can go back and make a custom kernel. I wouldn't be surprised if that turns off a lot of people.
I thought genkernel was listed too, but it's been a while since I've looked. Either genkernel didn't exist when I started, or I didn't know about it. I was not familiar with how to meaningfully compile a kernel when I started, and it wasn't that difficult to find answers on how to identify hardware, etc. Yes, it definitely requires time, which itself requires patience. When it doesn't boot and you learn that you need the fs drivers compiled into the kernel, it isn't too hard to find those and enable them. Finding the NIC driver is probably the most tricky. I don't recall having trouble with video drivers. However, getting X to work was a bit of a pain.
_________________
Slowly I turned. Step by step.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 747
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
It was quite a while before I tried ext4. ext3 was not presenting any stability issues. And now that I look, there seem to be far too may fs types in Linux these days (binfmt_misc, cgroup_root, cpu, cpuacct, cpuset, debugfs, devpts, devtmpfs, freezer, fusectl, mqueue, none, openrc, proc, sysfs, tmpfs). And I only recently gave in to using Grub 2.

I guess I've generally preferred a stable system so I could do other things rather than have a system to jack around with for no apparent reason.



Same. ext4 is fine, I have /boot as fat32 just because of UEFI. GRUB2 is fine. But because of so many options, I think new users would be best served by sticking with the recommended.

I experimented with filesystems a lot more years ago. Losing data after a power surges decreased my desire to keep playing with more exotic varieties. So these days, I just stick with ext4.
_________________
People Of Love

Kindness Evokes Kindness

Peace Emits Positive Energy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Suicidal
l33t
l33t


Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 952
Location: /dev/null

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Leaving Gentoo for Arch Reply with quote

ayeyes wrote:
if one doesn't have OCD that's all I have can say about that.


Funny considering being a little OCD is the reason most of us keep coming back
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sao98021
n00b
n00b


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Posts: 72
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Derpderpderpderp"

thats my brain on archsystemd
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jonathan183
Guru
Guru


Joined: 13 Dec 2011
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I originally only read this thread because of the original title which was in my opinion poorly chosen ...

I used Arch for quite a few years ... stopped using it because of problems with systemd, they also started doing some stuff like merging /bin with /usr/bin etc. For the setup I had the merging did not really affect me but systemd was a problem ... on a number of occasions I had the system not booting without me making a mess of things (which did not happen with the previous init system) - so it was time to move on.

I don't think I will use Arch again ... but I'm glad it is an option and hope it works out for the OP 8)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erm67
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 238
Location: Where the black men cannot enter

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

duane wrote:
I've spent days trying to get X to run fast on arch, but it's still benchmarking significantly better under gentoo, even running the same kernel (file). If I have to recompile kernel, mesa, etc. to get the same performance on my laptop, I don't see the point in switching.


I am curious, what performance/benchmark, HW, drivers, CFLAGS ....
_________________
True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it.
A posse ad esse non valet consequentia
Πάντα ῥεῖ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
duane
n00b
n00b


Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Posts: 29
Location: Oklahoma City

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
duane wrote:
I've spent days trying to get X to run fast on arch, but it's still benchmarking significantly better under gentoo, even running the same kernel (file). If I have to recompile kernel, mesa, etc. to get the same performance on my laptop, I don't see the point in switching.


I am curious, what performance/benchmark, HW, drivers, CFLAGS ....


Here's the thread I started on the arch forums about the issue. I kind of hate to bother anyone about it, since it's not like anything's broken.

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1813546

Edit: Most of the problem turned out to be arch having enabled dri3 in the xf86-video-intel driver -- fairly easy to fix. Still haven't figured out why wine is slower.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erm67
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 238
Location: Where the black men cannot enter

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically to get the same performance (+/- 5% due to -march=native) all you have to do is recompile a single buggy package: the intel driver ......... And once Intel fixes the driver for your card not even that ....

Yaeh Fedora and Arch sometimes uses very recent releases that might not work on a few systems and don't care about them .......... I had a similar problem with a kernel failing to boot on Arch and moved to a different distro after a few months since recompiling the kernel every time was too much work for me and arch devs refused to fix it since it affected only very few systems.
_________________
True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it.
A posse ad esse non valet consequentia
Πάντα ῥεῖ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zucca
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1373
Location: KUUSANKOSKI, Finland

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I visited Archipelago, but eventually got back. Basically bleeding edge systemd was the main reason.

Also as some have already stated, the forums were not as friendly or welcoming as we have here.
_________________
..: Zucca :..

Code:
ERROR: '--failure' is not an option. Aborting...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anon-E-moose
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 3484
Location: Dallas area

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zucca wrote:
I visited Archipelago, but eventually got back. Basically bleeding edge systemd was the main reason.

Also as some have already stated, the forums were not as friendly or welcoming as we have here.


Their forums suck, but their wiki's are pretty helpful. :lol:
_________________
Asus m5a99fx, FX 8320 - nouveau & radeon, oss4
Acer laptop E5-575, i3-7100u - i965, alsa
---both---
4.14.62 kernel, profile 17.0 (no-pie) amd64-no-multilib
gcc 7.3.0, eudev, openrc, openbox, palemoon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1clue
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 2401

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
Zucca wrote:
I visited Archipelago, but eventually got back. Basically bleeding edge systemd was the main reason.

Also as some have already stated, the forums were not as friendly or welcoming as we have here.


Their forums suck, but their wiki's are pretty helpful. :lol:


Actually the arch wiki and documentation is second to none. I frequently use it even though I no longer run an arch box.
_________________
You can't fix yourself by breaking someone else.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ant P.
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 5279

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take the code, avoid the crowds. Usually solid advice for a lot of FOSS.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 17452

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An addendum to my earlier post.

My perspective was from the point of view of headless systems.

GUI on a laptop? Not so much. Resisting the urge to go back to the spinning rust with Windows 10.
_________________
Slowly I turned. Step by step.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
duane
n00b
n00b


Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Posts: 29
Location: Oklahoma City

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The archiso scripts are a lot of fun too -- much easier to work with than catalyst, at least in my case. (And, needless to say, little compiling time.)

I did find the absence of a few programs (that I make a lot of use of) from the official repositories to be odd, but that probably says more about me than it does about the repositories.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Duder
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 232

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
You will be back :)
Gentoo is the Hotel California of linux. I tried leaving here too many times to count. I was 18 when I first joined. And boy does it show.

EDIT: Wow, in 11 days, it'll have been 15 years ago since I first attempted an install.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
shadywack
n00b
n00b


Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duder wrote:
Naib wrote:
You will be back :)
Gentoo is the Hotel California of linux. I tried leaving here too many times to count. I was 18 when I first joined. And boy does it show.

EDIT: Wow, in 11 days, it'll have been 15 years ago since I first attempted an install.


Man that's the truth. I keep coming back. I really do like Manjaro a lot too, but Gentoo's my go to.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum