State of the Union

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:21 pm Post subject:

From the cups source

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:41 pm Post subject:

khayyam,

I'm firmly embedded in the past with my static /dev install.
I do keep the packages installed up to date by careful selection of USE flags and the odd application of the olde-gentoo USE flag.

Its getting harder. I still have openrc-0.17 which blocks sys-apps/opentmpfiles.
More and more things want sys-apps/opentmpfiles, most recently, sudo.
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Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:06 pm Post subject:

Neddy, I added "virtual/tmpfiles-0" to packages.provided and that shut sudo up. It was the tmpfiles.eclass that was trying to pull it in (RDEPEND).
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PRIME x570-pro, 3700x, 6.1 zen kernel
gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:24 pm Post subject:

Anon-E-moose,

Thank you.

I had got as far as the tmpfiles.eclass but not working out what it did for me.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

khayyam · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:25 pm Post subject:

Tony0945 · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:05 pm Post subject:

Tony0945 · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:08 am Post subject:

Khayyam & Anon-E-moose: Thanks for the input. With a little patching, I might not need xdg-utils at all.
I hate to hardcode Firefox or Palemoon. Any suggestions? just reading a file to read the preference would be OK, but I'm sure there is something more elegant. When I click a link in an email in Thunderbird, it knows to launch Palemoon. Come to thibk of it, I vaguely recall there is a preference setting in Thunderbird for all sorts of application. Hardly needs dbus or perl.

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:44 am Post subject:

if you needed xdg-open you could just strip it out and put it in /usr/local/bin.

If you look at the file, there isn't much it does, most of it is a case statement for figuring out which DE one has.

Edit to add: more info on various pieces of xdg-utils https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xdg-utils
Although in looking in .local/share/applications I have stuff that's been there forever even though many of the apps I no longer have.
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PRIME x570-pro, 3700x, 6.1 zen kernel
gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland

Tony0945 · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:02 pm Post subject:

Did some more research this morning. Only xdg-screensaver really needs dbus. The other utilities call dbus-send in a long chain of elif's to determine if the desktop is gnome. A simple gnome flag will take care of this. With Use -gnome there is no need to check for gnome.

xdg-screensaver is another story. It depends heavily on dbus calls to work. I find it used only by xfce4-session and mate-screensaver which do NOT have dbus in their dependencies!

Can some script guru tell me what happens in this code fragment if dbus-send does not exist?

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:08 pm Post subject:

if dbus-send doesn't exist it returns a 127 (non zero) return code, which should fail and go to the next elif

you only need xdg-screensaver if you want some other application or the command line to interface with xscreensaver.

If you're modifying them for your use, you could just yank out the elif for dbus-send or just remove the whole if-elif statement and put what you want there as an end result.
It's just trying to figure out what DE it is, although it shouldn't matter in most cases.

edit to add: from the arch wiki about xdg-utils

Tony0945 · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:53 pm Post subject:

Tony0945 · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:57 pm Post subject:

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:07 pm Post subject:

cups and xsane use xdg-open, but it's for the browser to pull up help/documentation. Other than that not needed for either.
And as you saw dbus isn't really needed except for the screensaver portion.

What I did was just copy the /usr/bin/xdg-* stuff to /usr/local/bin and added the xdg-utils to package.provided so it wouldn't try and update or pull it in.
I'll get around to editing the files and yanking out the dbus-send stuff along with the "determine DE" code eventually as it's not needed in my case (openbox)

Edit to add: the only difference I can see between the 1.1.1 version I was running and the new 1.1.3 version is that dbus is now a dependency.
But it was always needed for the xdg-screensaver stuff to work.

So if your system worked before without dbus being on your system, it will work with the new stuff w/o dbus.
In other words there probably wasn't anything using that portion of the utilities anyway.
_________________
PRIME x570-pro, 3700x, 6.1 zen kernel
gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland

berferd · Tux's lil' helper Joined: 13 May 2004 Posts: 117

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:45 pm Post subject:

berferd,

It wouldn't really be a fork, just an overlay or two.

There is a wiki page on an Old Fashioned Gentoo Install but I've not published a supporting overly.
Mostly because my git foo is weak but also because I can't thoroughly test things.
_________________
Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

josephg · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:02 pm Post subject:

krinn · Watchman Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 7470

josephg · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:06 am Post subject:

Perhaps it doesn't have to be OpenRC :?:

I like runit much better. It certainly seems to be going the right direction, rather than try be everything for everyone.
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"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell." Edward Abbey

khayyam · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:14 am Post subject:

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:03 am Post subject:

I like the concept of gentoo, but I'm getting tired of the constant trying to make non-systemd choices look like systemd.
I'm spending too much time trying to watch for (systemd'ism) incursions vs just using the system (which is the way it was for years)

So my choices are to lock the system where it is, and not upgrade or do my own ebuilds for major upgrades (or unsystemd those ebuilds)
and no, just accepting systemd is not one of my choices, if I wanted to go that route I'd just install redhat in the first place or just use windows.

Although if someone makes an overlay that's systemd (or it's influences) free, I would consider going that route.
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PRIME x570-pro, 3700x, 6.1 zen kernel
gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland

pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20067

josephg · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:26 pm Post subject:

I've been thinking this for a while too.. systemd does not want/like to co-exist with others. Gentoo wanting to also be friendly towards systemd just means that it's being pulled in many different directions and seems to have lost it's focus on what it is and what it wants to be. Where does it want to go? The loudest hardest pull/shove comes from systemd, and inevitably there has to be made a choice between to be or not to be systemd.

I think I would like to move to a distro or system which explicitly states that they don't or won't systemd. Otherwise, leaning in that direction will eventually topple us completely down that way.

It's the reason I don't like Gnome. They are bullies!

Before I moved to Gentoo, I evaluated Funtoo and couldn't make up my mind wrt Gentoo which felt more mainstream. I felt welcome here and stayed. I wonder what others think of Funtoo.. I like what they say! Will Funtoo stick with their current policy? http://funtoo.org/Mitigating_Systemd
_________________
"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell." Edward Abbey

Anon-E-moose · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:32 pm Post subject:

The only drawback to funtoo, IMO, is that it doesn't keep up to date as quickly as gentoo (though that is positive and negative).

It's similar enough that swapping over shouldn't be a problem.

The only other option that I really see is going full LFS, and doing it all myself.
Which I did back in the 0.*-2.* kernel days.

I do like the ability to easily add and remove packages (and all associated files) so even if I did go LFS I'd probably try and keep something like portage going.
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PRIME x570-pro, 3700x, 6.1 zen kernel
gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland

josephg · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:37 pm Post subject: