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Yamakuzure
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

szatox wrote:
Kate: Jack, it's late, go to bed
Jake: I can't! Someone is wrong on the internet!


Seriously, guys, nothing to see here, move along.
Nobody cares that you disagree with that dude, and he has no power over us, so there is no reason to care 'bout his opinion.
I don't care about his opinion. I was just wondering what the fuss is all about. ;-)
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ChrisJumper
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey but we are unfriendly and uncool if someone or something will introduce commercial software or bad licence into the heart of linux, gentoo or free software.

I am so glad that we don't have a default search engine in the desktop or like that one in firefox.


Last edited by ChrisJumper on Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gentooP4
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't go behind the paywall and don't view his content? [SOLVED]

from the reddit post wrote:
Edit: A common opinion down below is that it's his content so he can do what he wants. I don't think anyone dissagrees here, but the point of this thread is to discuss our opinions about a public figure's action.


Discuss opinions on opinions on actions :lol: .............................. :roll:
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gordonb3
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Gentoo forum/community "unfriendly and not cool& Reply with quote

gorg86 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbF9PZKipwA
I've been here for a while now and to be honest, this is one of the most friendly places on the net.
From what I've seen newbies always got decent help here, even when their questions oozed lazyness.
Who are you Henry? Reveal yourself :P
I'm not Henry, but I can relate to him. There are quite a number of users here that like to pry there nose in practically everything and get real bitchy when they're told that their reply either doesn't answer the question or in fact disregards the question completely and is just there to show how smart they (think they) are.

Typical requests for help go like this:
Quote:
A - I have absolutely no clue how to ...
B - RTFM!
... yeah, that's really helpful

Quote:
A - I have absolutely no clue how to ...
B - use the quick search, that question has been asked at least a thousand times!
... which really doesn't work because due to the ridiculous amount of posts these people make the forum needs to be cleaned up so often that there's really not much of a history that one can search through. I can't even find my own previous post, so if one of these jokers thinks about asking me what this is about I can't even give him the same answer as he himself is giving anyone else.

Quote:
A - I can't use X [because] and I have this problem with Y
B - You should use X
A - You didn't read my opening post: I can't use X
B - I don't like you and I will never try to help you ever again
... which might be sort of positive if the idiot would actually keep that promise - he doesn't, he'll be back if you have another question

Quote:
A - I have a question about...
B - You're right to ask, because there are multiple answers to this
C - There's just one answer (and I happen to have it) and I'll ask the moderator to delete yours for being off topic
... scared about loosing your `job` when people start understanding what it's about?


In reality it's probably an absolute minority of members that behave like this, but because they are quite fanatic they do make this whole forum look bad. In general this is about members that have a high 4 or 5 digit number of posts and in particular the ones that post in this topic, snitching on what in their mind other members are doing wrong. And yes I'm deliberately not using the word reporting there.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gordonb3,

gordonb3 wrote:
In reality it's probably an absolute minority of members that behave like this, but because they are quite fanatic they do make this whole forum look bad. In general this is about members that have a high 4 or 5 digit number of posts and in particular the ones that post in this topic, snitching on what in their mind other members are doing wrong. And yes I'm deliberately not using the word reporting there.


Care to cite some actual examples?

This list shows that we have 8 members with 5 digit postcounts and they are all mods, admins or past mods/admins.
Those users in the high 4 digit post count region of the list I linked are not frequent posters to the topic you linked either.

A RTFM response is quite in order too, as long as it includes a reference to the applicable section of the friendly manual.

gordonb3 wrote:
I can't even find my own previous post

Go to your profile
Click on Find all posts by gordonb3

You can do that for any forum user, not just yourself. If you test it with me you will see that the search only returns the most recent 6666 posts.
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gordonb3
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now why would I do some click-click-click if there is a direct link to "View your posts" in the main menu?

Also, that topic I linked to has had a lot more posts to it than it shows. But I can't forbid you to think that the first reply to that announcement only occurred nine years after it was placed. should you however be curious, just monitor it.

And no. I don't care to cite any actual examples. However as it appears you have access to my message history you should be able to find reference to instances of the last two schemes.
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gordonb3,

View your posts in the main menu may not do what you want. Its actually only recent posts.
Every logged in user has access to users public profiles. That includes find all posts by <user>.

The report topic does indeed get trimmed from time to time and I read it several times a day, so I think I monitor it.
I even edit posts there if I take action on a report.
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Hu
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At minimum, posts in the report topic are deleted once (1) the report has been resolved and (2) sufficient time has passed since resolution that the reporter could have seen the moderator/administrator's response, if he/she cared to look. In more complex cases, particularly ones where reasonable people can disagree about the proper handling, posts persist longer or are split off the report thread and kept indefinitely. Generally, I delete any resolved spam reports and ban-user reports within a few days of their resolution. For users who are particularly active in the report thread, I sometimes shorten that window, since they are likely to have seen the response more quickly.
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Naib
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gordonb3 wrote:
Now why would I do some click-click-click if there is a direct link to "View your posts" in the main menu?

Also, that topic I linked to has had a lot more posts to it than it shows. But I can't forbid you to think that the first reply to that announcement only occurred nine years after it was placed. should you however be curious, just monitor it.

And no. I don't care to cite any actual examples. However as it appears you have access to my message history you should be able to find reference to instances of the last two schemes.


The "view your posts" link only shows links that have been active for the last ... 30days or something. This is only of use to access your most recent activity to carry on discussions.

The report thread will unfortunately contain emotional responses... someone somewhere has crossed the line so why wouldn't a post be reported and acted upon?
Your complaint here seems more in line that the report is visible because rest assured other distro's have report features BUT the tracker is not publically visible and is instead for moderators eyes only. Hiding reports doesn't remove the fact reports occur

The vast amount of reports going into there are: spam, misplaced, grievances and grievances are actually not that common and usually occur when a thread gets heated usually because some common ground in a discussion isn't found


Also I can't actually remember the last time a RTFM post was made, a post with just RTFM... There are plenty of valid responses stating the info is in the manual as well as additional insight (like actually explaining the manual entry).
This is a perfect example of correct response
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-7943906.html

What is wrong with this? someone asked a question, someone provided citable information


Now here is an example of someone doing a RTFM https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-5238373.html look at how they got isolated as being unfriendly, unhelpful.


lets jump to ubuntu: https://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-815551.html RTFM reply...
and another https://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-898924.html (that get rightly shot down)
and another https://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1273262.html

Do you want me to continue... The RTFM meme associated with linux is almost 3decades out of date but you get arrogant users in all OS's and versions of, so why are you singling out Gentoo where we actually help people an awful lot

I don't think you and this YT are giving a realistic statement of the Gentoo forums.
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gordonb3
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not entering a discussion on this. I'm informing you that there are a few members here that are responsible for at least a dozen Henrys - each. You may not like it, you may want to bury your head and do la-la-la, but you'll not be changing anything about the fact.


Naib wrote:

Do you want me to continue...

So okay, I said I didn't feel like citing any actual examples - which includes literal phrases for `RTFM` - but if you're throwing a category 4 right in our faces here that's kind of hard to ignore.

Yes by all means, do continue. If you feel like it you may do so forever as far as I'm concerned.


And that's my last comment on this
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Naib
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are making out that this behaviour is unique to Gentoo. I am showing you it is not. It is a behaviour which is typical of humans in all disciplines. It is a behaviour that isn't welcome on this board and is called out when it occurs.

The vitriolic users... yes there are a handful here but again their behaviour isn't supported (and this can be seen in the publically viewable report thread). Would it make you feel better if it was hidden as it is on other forums? linux, gaming, crochet sites?. Likewise this behaviour isn't unique to gentoo.
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Jaglover
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It is a behaviour which is typical of humans in all disciplines. It is a behaviour that isn't welcome on this board and is called out when it occurs.

I point quite often to Gentoo documentation without actually quoting it. You make me feel I'm doing it all wrong. Isn't it expected to check out the documentation before posting a help request?
Example. No useful information, nothing but "help me". Even no 'please". No reading Gentoo wiki. No description what has been done to troubleshoot. No mention of actual use flags. No emerge --info. No nothing.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover,

We often post to the same threads. If you were doing it all wrong, I for one, would have pointed it out before now.
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pa4wdh
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the Gentoo community is "Unfriendly and not cool", it's usually a helpful community. Before i went to Gentoo I was very active on an other Linux related forum, i've never been that active on this forums. However, i do see some people answering questions where i think "I don't want to go that route again ...", so i think there are a lot of very knowledgeable and patient people here willing to share their knowledge and experiences with anyone taking the effort of asking a proper question.

When i try to understand a comment like "The Gentoo community is unfriendly and not cool", i also can see their point. Some people do have strong opinions about certain subjects and are not afraid to express them in a strong way, I guess some examples of this can be found in the systemd related topics. While this strictly doesn't count as "unfriendly and not cool", i can understand that some newbies are scared/offended by them.
Please note that i'm not suggesting that those opinions should be suppressed or those discussions should be stopped, it's also a sign of passion for the subject and that's what drives a forum like this. I'm just saying that it might be a reason why some people think of the community in this way.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
Quote:
It is a behaviour which is typical of humans in all disciplines. It is a behaviour that isn't welcome on this board and is called out when it occurs.

I point quite often to Gentoo documentation without actually quoting it. You make me feel I'm doing it all wrong. Isn't it expected to check out the documentation before posting a help request?
Example. No useful information, nothing but "help me". Even no 'please". No reading Gentoo wiki. No description what has been done to troubleshoot. No mention of actual use flags. No emerge --info. No nothing.
Well there is a difference between people who generally could not understand or follow aspects of the man-pages/documentations and those that don't even bother to help themselves.
I recently had an issue with MantisBT, I read over the manual, the admin manual and I still couldn't solve the problem. I posted on stackoverflow and mantisBT... I got a RTFM post from Stackoverflow" but I got an explanation and the tweak needed to get me going. Once I understood the problem it was clear the manual wasn't going to solve it :)

it never ceases to amaze me how the vast majority of people have zero appreciate of RRCA or how to present information
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gordonb3 wrote:
I'm not entering a discussion on this. I'm informing you that there are a few members here that are responsible for at least a dozen Henrys - each. You may not like it, you may want to bury your head and do la-la-la, but you'll not be changing anything about the fact.
Without specific examples to address, do you instead have an example community which has "solved the problem" and could be used as a guide to improve this community? Before a problem can be ignored, it needs to be clearly defined or understood.
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sao98021
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i had a big thing typed out about how arch community forums being much harsher, but i fact checked myself and went and looked for some examples and found that it must have politely improved over the years so i will now refrain.

although ill still say these are some of the most polite, helpful and professional people here at forums.gentoo.org
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:32 am    Post subject: Re: Gentoo forum/community "unfriendly and not cool&quo Reply with quote

gorg86 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbF9PZKipwA
I've been here for a while now and to be honest, this is one of the most friendly places on the net.
From what I've seen newbies always got decent help here, even when their questions oozed lazyness.
Who are you Henry? Reveal yourself :P


I definitely agree. One of the deciding factors for my move to Gentoo as my main distro was the community. It was by far the most friendly and helpful, and the advice that I received was always really good. I wish I was as sharp as some of the people that have helped me on this form and over IRC.
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bghoons
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Gentoo forum/community "unfriendly and not cool& Reply with quote

paintchip wrote:
gorg86 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbF9PZKipwA
I've been here for a while now and to be honest, this is one of the most friendly places on the net.
From what I've seen newbies always got decent help here, even when their questions oozed lazyness.
Who are you Henry? Reveal yourself :P


I definitely agree. One of the deciding factors for my move to Gentoo as my main distro was the community. It was by far the most friendly and helpful, and the advice that I received was always really good. I wish I was as sharp as some of the people that have helped me on this form and over IRC.


I also agree. I have also noticed that when searching the internet to resolve issues, over half of the hits direct you to Gentoo forums which seem to have most of the answers. That was one of the factors causing me to decide on Gentoo: these guys know their stuff so I do not have to "reinvent the wheel" to figure out a persnickety problem.
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SpiderPigLoki
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noob here.

I always felt welcome here. I never received an unfriendly, unwarranted response.
People always tried to help me.

Never tried the Archforums, so let's give them the benefit of doubt.

I think Brian / Lunduke was always a bit "tongue and cheek" with his critism. At least with his "Linux Sucks"-Talks.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sao98021 wrote:
although ill still say these are some of the most polite, helpful and professional people here at forums.gentoo.org

I'm going to agree with that, it's polite unless it involves systemd, people here refrain from tangential unhelpful commenting, and the help that is offered is usually based in something more solid than opinion.

As far as unfriendly, it's not a binary, you don't need to be friendly to pass on knowledge, it can be neutral. I know of some more sensitive types infer unfriendliness from and emotionless passing of knowledge, I don't really think that's our problem to try and correct.

The worst case of "RTFM" I've seen here is a solitary URL pointing to a relevant source, which I translate to "Your lack of research is disappointing, I'm not sure you deserve my help but here it is anyway."
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