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honeymak Guru
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 Posts: 537
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Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:53 am Post subject: julia |
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will gentoo be re-written in julia lang replacing python?
_________________ hackers - make sth real
academics - read sth said to be real |
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fedeliallalinea Administrator
Joined: 08 Mar 2003 Posts: 30916 Location: here
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Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: julia |
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honeymak wrote: | will gentoo be re-written in julia lang replacing python?
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You means portage? If yes I doubt. _________________ Questions are guaranteed in life; Answers aren't. |
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John R. Graham Administrator
Joined: 08 Mar 2005 Posts: 10589 Location: Somewhere over Atlanta, Georgia
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Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Moved from Unsupported Software to Portage & Programming. Question is about Gentoo tools (which are supported) and programming languages so it fits better here. (Maybe.)
Besides, I personally think it's more likely that the Gentoo tools will be rewritten in Erlang. (Which, for the avoidance of doubt, I think is extremely unlikely.)
- John _________________ I can confirm that I have received between 0 and 499 National Security Letters. |
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Zucca Moderator
Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 3345 Location: Rasi, Finland
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Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Julia? Why Julia? _________________ ..: Zucca :..
Gentoo IRC channels reside on Libera.Chat.
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Quote: | I am NaN! I am a man! |
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Dr.Willy Guru
Joined: 15 Jul 2007 Posts: 547 Location: NRW, Germany
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Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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It's a pretty name, no? |
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honeymak Guru
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 Posts: 537
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:10 am Post subject: |
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i guess since python's future is not clear
and julia is around for math/num stuff
and julia dev team is quite scientific......i mean not just general programming.....at least they look at perf technically
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Hu Moderator
Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 21633
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:27 am Post subject: |
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What makes you think Python's future is any less clear than other current open source languages? Python 2.7 is largely dead upstream, but the newer iterations are still maintained by an active community. |
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Fitzcarraldo Advocate
Joined: 30 Aug 2008 Posts: 2034 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:04 am Post subject: |
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Julia isn't on the 99 Bottles of Beer list. _________________ Clevo W230SS: amd64, VIDEO_CARDS="intel modesetting nvidia".
Compal NBLB2: ~amd64, xf86-video-ati. Dual boot Win 7 Pro 64-bit.
OpenRC udev elogind & KDE on both.
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pjp Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20067
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:18 am Post subject: |
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lol
Thankfully, TIMTOWTDI
http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-perl-737.html
Quote: | As for how this works, first notice that Perl regular expressions are much more powerful than traditional regular expressions: you can, for example, execute Perl code inside a regular expression, allowing you to solve problems once thought "impossible" to solve with regexps, such as matching arbitrarily deeply nested parens ... or executing a complete 99 bottle of beer program inside a regexp. :-)
Second, notice that dynamic languages (such as Perl and many others) allow you to build a code string from an expression, then compile and execute it on the fly. In this case, the rather long expression is a series of bit-twiddling operations joined together with the string concat operator (.) producing a 99 bottle of beer program string. BTW, as this is a constant expression, the Perl parser sees it more clearly than the human reader (as you will discover if you run perl -MO=Deparse beer.pl). |
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mv Watchman
Joined: 20 Apr 2005 Posts: 6747
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:38 am Post subject: |
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OT, but anyway...
With modern perl, you additionally need the line at the beginning. |
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Goverp Advocate
Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Posts: 2008
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:53 am Post subject: |
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If you want a language with a future, you need one with a past - i.e. a track record.
I look forward to portage in COBOL, which as a compilable language without garbage collection is sure to be faster.
(Actually, when I read of slow algorithms such as some gcc optimizations exhibiting O(N**4) cost, and I expect something similar in portage dependency checking, I wonder if a sweeping application of sort/merge algorithms might not help a lot. (as a nested aside, If I recall correctly, the very first FORTRAN, arguably the first high level language, used sort/merge for every aspect of compilation.))))))))) _________________ Greybeard |
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Naib Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6051 Location: Removed by Neddy
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:26 am Post subject: |
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honeymak wrote: | i guess since python's future is not clear
and julia is around for math/num stuff
and julia dev team is quite scientific......i mean not just general programming.....at least they look at perf technically
| What makes you think Pythons future is not clear? it is still screaming up in popularity. Yes Julia has come along and to it does look really interesting with regards to data manipulation and it appears to be targeting matlab (the syntax, the behaviour) and this would make sense as at its core it is capable of matrix maths.
Thing is ... Portage doesn't need any of that and equally if it did there is numpy which does provide the functionality ( yes julia > py+numpy but that only matters if you deal with that sort of data...)
Likewise languages come and go all the time. Go came along, rust came along and these look nice yet there was no drive to rewrite portage in these languages.
Equally a rewrite is not trivial
I guess you need to ask in what domain has the "reports" that julia is rising to potentially upsurp python and I bet you will find it is in the scientific domain and even then the demise of python is quite premature. _________________
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mv Watchman
Joined: 20 Apr 2005 Posts: 6747
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:56 am Post subject: |
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Goverp wrote: | I wonder if a sweeping application of sort/merge algorithms might not help a lot. |
If a computationally complex program uses for dynamic data some sort/merge algorithm instead of a more advanced data strucure (balanced trees, hash, y-fast trees, .... or tricky combinations of these) it is probably doing something very wrong. |
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Yamakuzure Advocate
Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 2284 Location: Adendorf, Germany
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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I couldn't believe it, but you are right.
But why? Even Brainfuck is there!
Well... I think that nobody bothered, yet... _________________ Important German:- "Aha" - German reaction to pretend that you are really interested while giving no f*ck.
- "Tja" - German reaction to the apocalypse, nuclear war, an alien invasion or no bread in the house.
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Fitzcarraldo Advocate
Joined: 30 Aug 2008 Posts: 2034 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Yamakuzure wrote: | I couldn't believe it, but you are right.
But why? Even Brainfuck is there!
Well... I think that nobody bothered, yet... |
Perhaps it is in their queue of language submissions for approval:
http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/submitnewlanguage.html
Quote: | Approval may take some time (currently 2434 languages in our queue) unless your submission is 'obviously correct' to us. |
_________________ Clevo W230SS: amd64, VIDEO_CARDS="intel modesetting nvidia".
Compal NBLB2: ~amd64, xf86-video-ati. Dual boot Win 7 Pro 64-bit.
OpenRC udev elogind & KDE on both.
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Naib Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6051 Location: Removed by Neddy
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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ooo I didn't know that was a thing, VHDL is in there. I needed some testcode to help prove out my new design. _________________
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Ant P. Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 6920
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: julia |
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honeymak wrote: | will gentoo be re-written in julia lang replacing python?
:oops: |
Well volunteered! Good luck, Paludis tried for 8 years and got nowhere. |
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Yamakuzure Advocate
Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 2284 Location: Adendorf, Germany
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:01 am Post subject: Re: julia |
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Ant P. wrote: | honeymak wrote: | will gentoo be re-written in julia lang replacing python?
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Well volunteered! Good luck, Paludis tried for 8 years and got nowhere. | Yeah, but Paludis came from people being obsessed with "knowing it better" and making everything "right".
A switch from Python to Julia might, as you can integrate Python quite neatly into your Julia project, be done very smoothly over several release cycles.
Remember OpenOffice? How it was the show-case for the power of Java, and how it got transitioned to C++ over the years?
But I don't think that it would be worth the effort and extra dependencies. Moving Portage from Python to Julia might yield some advantages, but they would be far far less than moving an office suite from Java to C++. _________________ Important German:- "Aha" - German reaction to pretend that you are really interested while giving no f*ck.
- "Tja" - German reaction to the apocalypse, nuclear war, an alien invasion or no bread in the house.
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Dr.Willy Guru
Joined: 15 Jul 2007 Posts: 547 Location: NRW, Germany
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:48 am Post subject: |
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Wait, wait, wait … are we seriously debating whether or not it would be a good idea to rewrite a base system component in a programming language designed for scientific computing? |
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Naib Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6051 Location: Removed by Neddy
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Dr.Willy wrote: | Wait, wait, wait … are we seriously debating whether or not it would be a good idea to rewrite a base system component in a programming language designed for scientific computing? | yup
Julia looks really interesting and I will be looking into testing it with some of behavioral modeling I do (presently done in python or matlab), but as a general purpose language? and at this stage _________________
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asturm Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 8936
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Suffice to say that packaging julia seems to be an ongoing frustration for packagers. So far stabilisation is unthinkable. |
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