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honeymak
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:53 am    Post subject: julia Reply with quote

will gentoo be re-written in julia lang replacing python?
:oops:
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: julia Reply with quote

honeymak wrote:
will gentoo be re-written in julia lang replacing python?
:oops:

You means portage? If yes I doubt.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moved from Unsupported Software to Portage & Programming. Question is about Gentoo tools (which are supported) and programming languages so it fits better here. (Maybe.)

Besides, I personally think it's more likely that the Gentoo tools will be rewritten in Erlang. ;) (Which, for the avoidance of doubt, I think is extremely unlikely.)

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Zucca
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Julia? Why Julia?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a pretty name, no?
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honeymak
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i guess since python's future is not clear
and julia is around for math/num stuff
and julia dev team is quite scientific......i mean not just general programming.....at least they look at perf technically
:roll: :oops:
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What makes you think Python's future is any less clear than other current open source languages? Python 2.7 is largely dead upstream, but the newer iterations are still maintained by an active community.
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Fitzcarraldo
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Julia isn't on the 99 Bottles of Beer list. :wink:
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol

Thankfully, TIMTOWTDI

http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-perl-737.html

Quote:
As for how this works, first notice that Perl regular expressions are much more powerful than traditional regular expressions: you can, for example, execute Perl code inside a regular expression, allowing you to solve problems once thought "impossible" to solve with regexps, such as matching arbitrarily deeply nested parens ... or executing a complete 99 bottle of beer program inside a regexp. :-)

Second, notice that dynamic languages (such as Perl and many others) allow you to build a code string from an expression, then compile and execute it on the fly. In this case, the rather long expression is a series of bit-twiddling operations joined together with the string concat operator (.) producing a 99 bottle of beer program string. BTW, as this is a constant expression, the Perl parser sees it more clearly than the human reader (as you will discover if you run perl -MO=Deparse beer.pl).

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mv
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OT, but anyway...
pjp wrote:
lol

Thankfully, TIMTOWTDI

http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-perl-737.html

With modern perl, you additionally need the line
Code:
use re 'eval';
at the beginning.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want a language with a future, you need one with a past - i.e. a track record.

I look forward to portage in COBOL, which as a compilable language without garbage collection is sure to be faster.

(Actually, when I read of slow algorithms such as some gcc optimizations exhibiting O(N**4) cost, and I expect something similar in portage dependency checking, I wonder if a sweeping application of sort/merge algorithms might not help a lot. (as a nested aside, If I recall correctly, the very first FORTRAN, arguably the first high level language, used sort/merge for every aspect of compilation.)))))))))
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

honeymak wrote:
i guess since python's future is not clear
and julia is around for math/num stuff
and julia dev team is quite scientific......i mean not just general programming.....at least they look at perf technically
:roll: :oops:
What makes you think Pythons future is not clear? it is still screaming up in popularity. Yes Julia has come along and to it does look really interesting with regards to data manipulation and it appears to be targeting matlab (the syntax, the behaviour) and this would make sense as at its core it is capable of matrix maths.

Thing is ... Portage doesn't need any of that and equally if it did there is numpy which does provide the functionality ( yes julia > py+numpy but that only matters if you deal with that sort of data...)
Likewise languages come and go all the time. Go came along, rust came along and these look nice yet there was no drive to rewrite portage in these languages.
Equally a rewrite is not trivial

I guess you need to ask in what domain has the "reports" that julia is rising to potentially upsurp python and I bet you will find it is in the scientific domain and even then the demise of python is quite premature.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goverp wrote:
I wonder if a sweeping application of sort/merge algorithms might not help a lot.

If a computationally complex program uses for dynamic data some sort/merge algorithm instead of a more advanced data strucure (balanced trees, hash, y-fast trees, .... or tricky combinations of these) it is probably doing something very wrong.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fitzcarraldo wrote:
Julia isn't on the 99 Bottles of Beer list. :wink:
I couldn't believe it, but you are right.

But why? Even Brainfuck is there!
Well... I think that nobody bothered, yet...
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Fitzcarraldo
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamakuzure wrote:
Fitzcarraldo wrote:
Julia isn't on the 99 Bottles of Beer list. :wink:
I couldn't believe it, but you are right.

But why? Even Brainfuck is there!
Well... I think that nobody bothered, yet...

Perhaps it is in their queue of language submissions for approval:

http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/submitnewlanguage.html

Quote:
Approval may take some time (currently 2434 languages in our queue) unless your submission is 'obviously correct' to us.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ooo I didn't know that was a thing, VHDL is in there. I needed some testcode to help prove out my new design.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: julia Reply with quote

honeymak wrote:
will gentoo be re-written in julia lang replacing python?
:oops:

Well volunteered! Good luck, Paludis tried for 8 years and got nowhere.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: julia Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
honeymak wrote:
will gentoo be re-written in julia lang replacing python?
:oops:

Well volunteered! Good luck, Paludis tried for 8 years and got nowhere.
Yeah, but Paludis came from people being obsessed with "knowing it better" and making everything "right".

A switch from Python to Julia might, as you can integrate Python quite neatly into your Julia project, be done very smoothly over several release cycles.

Remember OpenOffice? How it was the show-case for the power of Java, and how it got transitioned to C++ over the years?
But I don't think that it would be worth the effort and extra dependencies. Moving Portage from Python to Julia might yield some advantages, but they would be far far less than moving an office suite from Java to C++.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, wait, wait … are we seriously debating whether or not it would be a good idea to rewrite a base system component in a programming language designed for scientific computing?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:
Wait, wait, wait … are we seriously debating whether or not it would be a good idea to rewrite a base system component in a programming language designed for scientific computing?
yup :lol: :lol: :lol:
Julia looks really interesting and I will be looking into testing it with some of behavioral modeling I do (presently done in python or matlab), but as a general purpose language? and at this stage :)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suffice to say that packaging julia seems to be an ongoing frustration for packagers. So far stabilisation is unthinkable.
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