Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
Guys! need advice: How to get ideas across effectively?
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

 
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Amity88
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Posts: 205
Location: Third planet from the Sun

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 5:07 pm    Post subject: Guys! need advice: How to get ideas across effectively? Reply with quote

Essentially I have a hard time structuring my reports/presentations in a way that makes it easy for others to understand. I've thought over it and it seems like the problem is with the way I go from one idea to the next. Even things like the way data was tabulated or the choice of the graphs.

I've always preferred doing stuff over writing reports or doing long boring presentations. However, this is starting to become a problem in multiple ways (Inability to highlight shit I've done / Effectively getting minions to do exactly what's needed :lol: etc).

Any advice is greatly appreciated!
_________________
Ant P. wrote:
The enterprise distros sell their binaries. Canonical sells their users.


Also... Be ignorant... Be happy! :)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John-Boy
Guru
Guru


Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want a pie chart.
_________________
Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BonezTheGoon
Bodhisattva
Bodhisattva


Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 1375
Location: Albuquerque, NM -- birthplace of Microsoft and Gentoo

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are plenty of books on the subject I think you'd find useful.

But my 10,000 foot view that may or may not be useful to you (hard for me to know what you need without examples) would simply be:

Always design your expression (report, presentation, etc.) with very intentional Beginning, Middle, and End. If you can define and design things with that in mind I think it will help order your thoughts for you.

Cheers!
_________________
mcgruff wrote:
I can't promise to be civil.


pjp wrote:
The greater evil is voting for the "lesser evil."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aidanjt
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: Rep. of Ireland

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Point at opposing ideas, and call them racist/sexist/homophobic/Islamophobic? Seems to be the in thing these days.
_________________
juniper wrote:
you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5361
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reports are meant to capture details concisely, presentations are meant to talk around.

Don't fill any presentation slide with a wall of text... For starters you will tend to then speak what is written and equally people will be trying to read and follow what you are saying. Remember the presentation is there to support you, you are not there to support it. People are there to hear you.

An important thing to consider is Seven, plus or minus two. This is soundbite with regards the average persons working memory limit (sure some have more, some have less... its a soundbite). If you are talking around a slide and there are alot of concepts (200,000 litres of peanut butter...) THAT is the type of thing you want to put on the slide. working with this 7 +-2, whatever the key points you are going to talk about on a slide, put those on NOT additional waffle... that's what you are there for

Infographics are great! pictorially articulating what you are describing. I recently drew a great little infographic for my wife w.r.t. some drug formulary.

now graphs :) I love graphs... bode plots, bar, line, pie... A technical informative graph will have tonnes of interpretation pointers: labels, ticks, markers ... Does it need all that for a presentation? especially if you are talking around it? no. "Less is more" strip back enough to convey the information needed.

See the two examples below.
https://www.presentationmagazine.com/newimages/unemployment1-5101.jpg
https://www.presentationmagazine.com/newimages/unemployment-510.jpg
most of the time absolute infomation (from a visual queue) isn't what is important, you will talk around that, what is important is trends

Start with an outline and finish with a clear conclusion
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3343

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For thngs like this I usually turn to Peter Griffin or Pickle Rick
_________________
"Sex: breakfast of champions" - James Hunt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John-Boy
Guru
Guru


Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Don't fill any presentation slide with a wall of text...


Nope, you want pie charts.
_________________
Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John-Boy
Guru
Guru


Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In seriousness, I've extracted data for presentations and the request is normally along the lines of 'put it in Excel and graph'.

They don't want the graph as such, just something that looks pretty while they point at stuff. Some of the data is so busy that the resulting chart looks like one of those wire frame arcade games from the 80's
_________________
Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HungGarTiger
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 04 Feb 2014
Posts: 138
Location: /nz/auckland

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
You want a pie chart.


Wrong, everyone knows that if something can't be expressed with a Venn diagram then it isn't worth expressing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John-Boy
Guru
Guru


Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HungGarTiger wrote:
John-Boy wrote:
You want a pie chart.


Wrong, everyone knows that if something can't be expressed with a Venn diagram then it isn't worth expressing


You could create a Venn with two pie charts.
_________________
Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
patrix_neo
Guru
Guru


Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 445
Location: The Maldives

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last time I did something like this, I got kind of a good result.

Start with some nutrition and coffe...only coffe. No Baileys to that.
And introduce yourself to the crowd why this is happening and why they are sitting there.
Understad the crowd and why they are there. What do they want from this meeting and why is that particular pie chart on screen?

ToNotTODO.txt:
No infantry drummer walking in on stage, ending with a cheery
- "Hear ye!, Hear ye! I have a proclamation from the CEO!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1605
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make an outline first. That's the answer.

Then, just follow the Golden Rule.

Glad you asked. The Golden Rule is "make your fucking point".

The presentation has a point. Make it.

Each slide has a point. Make it.

You can put detail in back-up slides used only if needed.
_________________
patrix_neo wrote:
The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HungGarTiger
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 04 Feb 2014
Posts: 138
Location: /nz/auckland

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
HungGarTiger wrote:
John-Boy wrote:
You want a pie chart.


Wrong, everyone knows that if something can't be expressed with a Venn diagram then it isn't worth expressing


You could create a Venn with two pie charts.


This might be the most efficient type of chart, if I had a minority with a pointing stick it would be perfect
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HungGarTiger
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 04 Feb 2014
Posts: 138
Location: /nz/auckland

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

patrix_neo wrote:
Just Coffee. No Baileys to that.


You know where you are when you have to expressibly make that point.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Amity88
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Posts: 205
Location: Third planet from the Sun

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for so many responses! It was a lot more than I expected :) I used the suggestions here to modify my style of reporting yesterday.

Let me list out my response to each of these points in-line:


Naib wrote:
reports are meant to capture details concisely, presentations are meant to talk around.

Don't fill any presentation slide with a wall of text... For starters you will tend to then speak what is written and equally people will be trying to read and follow what you are saying. Remember the presentation is there to support you, you are not there to support it. People are there to hear you.


In the past, I used to put a single point per sub-topic in the slide and elaborate it during the presentation. The presentations that I'm talking about here are essentially status updates and I have a hard time using the same system here.

Now that I think about it, there would be two ways to categorise my points based on what stage of the project I'm at:
1. At the start: Design plan, shit that's done, plans for next week
2. Towards the end: problems, potential-solutions & fixing-plan

So, all these are mainly points. I can't shrink them into smaller points but if I list them all on a slide it becomes a wall of text/tables. Maybe I should use a different way to represent them?

Naib wrote:

An important thing to consider is Seven, plus or minus two. This is soundbite with regards the average persons working memory limit (sure some have more, some have less... its a soundbite). If you are talking around a slide and there are alot of concepts (200,000 litres of peanut butter...) THAT is the type of thing you want to put on the slide. working with this 7 +-2, whatever the key points you are going to talk about on a slide, put those on NOT additional waffle... that's what you are there for


I find it interesting that both our short-term memory for items is 7 and that we can only really work with 7 minutes of talk. I'll read up on this, thanks!

Well..... for these presentations, I can't really talk smoothly over them. I'd briefly talk about one point and all of us discuss for several minutes. It's like a square wave than a ramp :D

Naib wrote:

now graphs :) I love graphs... bode plots, bar, line, pie... A technical informative graph will have tonnes of interpretation pointers: labels, ticks, markers ... Does it need all that for a presentation? especially if you are talking around it? no. "Less is more" strip back enough to convey the information needed.

most of the time absolute infomation (from a visual queue) isn't what is important, you will talk around that, what is important is trends

Start with an outline and finish with a clear conclusion


I do need to rethink how different types of graphs would help in my situation. Usually I use a bar chart, but replaced it with a pie chart instead in my last report because I felt that it gives a better sense of how each category relates to the total.

A line chart isn't useful at this point because the current state is more important than the trends. I've never used a bode plot after graduating, didn't have anything that operated over a huge range to justify it.

BonezTheGoon wrote:

Always design your expression (report, presentation, etc.) with very intentional Beginning, Middle, and End. If you can define and design things with that in mind I think it will help order your thoughts for you.


hmm... There are only points and numbers, so I'm thinking how to apply this here. Also, sometimes I don't give enough context, so people who aren't too familiar with what I've been doing won't get it BUT if I try to give too much context, it becomes redundant and takes up space/time.

I also need to condense any data I have to make it easier to look over but at the same time it shouldn't be so brief that we miss anything important.

John-Boy wrote:

Nope, you want pie charts.

They don't want the graph as such, just something that looks pretty while they point at stuff. Some of the data is so busy that the resulting chart looks like one of those wire frame arcade games


Yep, I tried a pie-chart! it seems better suited for the purpose than a bar-chart which I've been using so far.

In my case, precise numbers are important. So I need to bring those out without making it too complicated

Bones McCracker wrote:

Make an outline first. That's the answer.


I'll try that, right now there is just a couple of slides with all the detail. I felt that people were much more interested in the details. Maybe it's a good idea to have a very brief outline or a summary.
_________________
Ant P. wrote:
The enterprise distros sell their binaries. Canonical sells their users.


Also... Be ignorant... Be happy! :)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5361
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

seriously though... minimise the usage of pie charts... Picking the right type of graph to represent your data is key. If you need to add data labels to a graph then the graph type is wrong and face it... when was the last time you made a pie chart and didn't have to put a data label to show the percentage? pie charts do NOT easily show relative differences when the dataset is close. Likewise 3D pie charts are worse for this...

Bar charts more often then not show enough information. Line if you are plotting trending information. box and whisker if you are showing statistical results (here is where people would hide behind a pie or a mean figure...) Radar *IF* and only *IF* you are showing some form of Pareto priority data. GOD! I hate piecharts!
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
notageek
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 131
Location: India

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pie charts are industry standard when it comes to communicating effectively. Use them copiously.
_________________
"Defeat is a state of mind. No one is ever defeated, until defeat has been accepted as a reality." -- Bruce Lee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John-Boy
Guru
Guru


Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
Pie charts are industry standard when it comes to communicating effectively. Use them copiously.


Indeed. There is no such thing as too many pie charts.
_________________
Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
notageek
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 131
Location: India

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
notageek wrote:
Pie charts are industry standard when it comes to communicating effectively. Use them copiously.


Indeed. There is no such thing as too many pie charts.
++
_________________
"Defeat is a state of mind. No one is ever defeated, until defeat has been accepted as a reality." -- Bruce Lee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Watchman
Watchman


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5361
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
notageek wrote:
Pie charts are industry standard when it comes to communicating effectively. Use them copiously.


Indeed. There is no such thing as too many pie charts.
not sure if srs...
_________________
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter
Great Britain is a republic, with a hereditary president, while the United States is a monarchy with an elective king
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1605
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a "status update", you don't need a slide show. What you need is a dashboard.
Make an overview of all the areas. Each one has a light that can be green, yellow or red.
When you click each one, it goes to a backup slide with the points for that area.

"Areas" might be dimensions of performance, layers of architecture, systems within the system, stages of the process, or whatever.

Also, if this is Project status, there are dozens of examples of good project status reports out there. Areas of project management are things like "Scope, Quality, Effort, Risks, Timeline". There are metrics (look at a PMP study guide).

Google 'project status dashboard' or 'project status briefing'.
_________________
patrix_neo wrote:
The human thought: I cannot win.
The ratbrain in me : I can only go forward and that's it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum