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axl
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:50 am    Post subject: systemd is actually your friend. Reply with quote

tread lightly axl. i know.

look. i just want to point out a feature of journalctl that i actually love and saved me a lot of work.

in light of this thread: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1081722-highlight-.html and in light of the bug report that resulted from it, it have to say...


journalctl --list-boots and then journalctl -b the whatever boot log you want... is a feature. not a bug.

and the ability to choose between persistent/volatile/none. i marvel at people who would resist these features.

i say... well, i've heard all arguments. just give it a try. aliens wont steal your data.

PS wish i could both delete my own thread and yell at openrc people to get over it. or get in this century.
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Marcih
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: systemd is actually your friend. Reply with quote

axl wrote:
yell at openrc people to get over it. or get in this century.

Ah yes, the classic "old = bad" rhetoric.

You know, I refuse to use music streaming services and rather buy an album on a CD (or even vinyl if I'm feeling like getting ripped off), plop it in my CD player and listen to it from start to finish; I find it very had to do that with streaming services, it's usually on a smart-phone or a PC and there are too many distractions for me to be able to enjoy my music.
CDs are from the last century, the mid-late 80s I believe. Are you going to start a thread, telling me about how great music streaming services are?

I also like books. If I'm looking for something (information), my first trip will be to the library and not my PC (only if I can't find what I'm looking for will I search for it on the Web). I could read Stallman's book (I forget what it's called, the one that entirely consists of his articles about free software) on the Web for free, it's publicly available, yet I'm still looking to order it.
Books are certainly older than last century. Are you going to start a thread, telling me about how e-readers are actually the greatest thing since sliced bread and how those crusty old paper book are totally legacy?

I very much like the Linux kernel and the GNU tools. In fact, it's those that are allowing me to write this post.
The GNU project started in 1984, Linux kernel version 0.01 was released in 1991. While both under active development today, their goals and design philosophies haven't changed.
GNU and Linux are both from the last century. Are you going to start a thread, telling me about how we should give this new OS called systemd/RedHatinux a try instead of using this stupid, outdated GNU/Linux joke of an OS?

You can probably tell that the third example was heavily tongue-in-cheek, and I suspect that so was your post-scriptum, but my point still stands: one need not replace their old tools they are familiar with with shiny new ones solely for the reason of them being older than the new thing. A sentence from the Debian wiki article on argument why they should stay on SysV sums it up best:
Someone from Debian with common sense wrote:
We don't execute people just because they are old, and worship people just because they are new; we shouldn't do so with technology.


By all means, keep on using systemd, that's why you're here on Gentoo, it's all about choice. Interestingly enough, you won't find people here on the forums telling everyone how great $(NEW_INIT) is, it's always been systemd, which certainly activates my almonds.
(Yes, I know, I'm responding to a likely bait/troll or at least flame-inducing thread that we've had zillions of over the years, but I never got to participate in one of them so give me a break :D)
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't understand why "my init system has bespoke syntax for emulating logrotate and a tmpfs line in /etc/fstab" needs an entire thread
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Naib
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: systemd is actually your friend. Reply with quote

axl wrote:

journalctl --list-boots and then journalctl -b the whatever boot log you want... is a feature. not a bug.


just like User=0day wasn't a bug .... :roll:
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237#issuecomment-311900864
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: systemd is actually your friend. Reply with quote

axl wrote:
[...] i marvel at people who would resist these features. [...] PS wish i could both delete my own thread and yell at openrc people to get over it. or get in this century.

axl ... your argument/advocacy/ignorance hasn't made any improvement since you were on this same shtick last year. So please enjoy said "features", just quit shoving it down our throats with BS like we need to "get over it" or "get in this century".

best ... khay
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Yamakuzure
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: systemd is actually your friend. Reply with quote

khayyam wrote:
axl wrote:
[...] i marvel at people who would resist these features. [...] PS wish i could both delete my own thread and yell at openrc people to get over it. or get in this century.

axl ... your argument/advocacy/ignorance hasn't made any improvement since you were on this same shtick last year. So please enjoy said "features", just quit shoving it down our throats with BS like we need to "get over it" or "get in this century".

best ... khay
Isn't openrc from this century, too? :D
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Naib
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: systemd is actually your friend. Reply with quote

Yamakuzure wrote:
khayyam wrote:
axl wrote:
[...] i marvel at people who would resist these features. [...] PS wish i could both delete my own thread and yell at openrc people to get over it. or get in this century.

axl ... your argument/advocacy/ignorance hasn't made any improvement since you were on this same shtick last year. So please enjoy said "features", just quit shoving it down our throats with BS like we need to "get over it" or "get in this century".

best ... khay
Isn't openrc from this century, too? :D
That's the antiquated UNIX definition of a century. This needs to be re-invented for the new century
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: systemd is actually your friend. Reply with quote

Yamakuzure wrote:
Isn't openrc from this century, too? :D

Yamakuzure ... you'd have to ask The Doctor, he's the timelord around here :)

best ... khay
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Yamakuzure
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: systemd is actually your friend. Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Yamakuzure wrote:
khayyam wrote:
axl wrote:
[...] i marvel at people who would resist these features. [...] PS wish i could both delete my own thread and yell at openrc people to get over it. or get in this century.

axl ... your argument/advocacy/ignorance hasn't made any improvement since you were on this same shtick last year. So please enjoy said "features", just quit shoving it down our throats with BS like we need to "get over it" or "get in this century".

best ... khay
Isn't openrc from this century, too? :D
That's the antiquated UNIX definition of a century. This needs to be re-invented for the new century
Then we'll wait for the inclusion of "centuryd", right? Otherwise all calculation of times is futile!
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: systemd is actually your friend. Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
That's the antiquated UNIX definition of a century. This needs to be re-invented for the new century

Yamakuzure wrote:
Then we'll wait for the inclusion of "centuryd", right? Otherwise all calculation of times is futile!

Yamakuzure ... systemd is (obviously) far more forward looking than that ... a thousand year reichd demands millenniad ... its '--rewrite-history' feature means there's no reason to wait, as you can enjoy the future today!

best ... khay
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a computing timescale, the closest analogy we have to a century is probably the distance between now and the release date of whatever kernel runs on consumer routers still on the market. I've seen numbers ranging from 2.6.7 to 2.6.16, so about a dozen years.

That numbering seems to check out; we average 2 world wars per century, and redhat reinvents the wheel and forces it on everyone every 6 years or so…
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Hu
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

systemd has many designed-in behaviors. Some of these are features. Some are anti-features. Given enough designed-in behaviors, at least one of them will eventually be a useful feature. The presence of one, or even a few, useful features does not absolve it for all the anti-features.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
and redhat reinvents the wheel and forces it on everyone every 6 years or so…

Oh, please let RH junk systemd for Linux10 or whatever soon!
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The Doctor
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a bad feeling about this. Obvious troll is obvious. Would anyone care for a Jelly Baby?

As the "Politics of Systemd" threads seem to have been left to the dust this thread may have a place, but was trying to provoke a flame war really necessary? Success will certainly be marked with a locked thread.

Different software has different features. Depending on what you want to do one may be better suited than another. Last I checked sysadmins were fleeing systemd in droves, so the market speaks. You certainly don't want to piss off a sysadmin. Or a Dalek, but that is a different discussion.
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skellr
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Systemd is awesome! It will create btrfs subvolumes I didn't even know I needed!
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berferd
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skellr wrote:
Systemd is awesome! It will create btrfs subvolumes I didn't even know I needed!

This new learning amazes me!
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A flame-bait thread?????
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/with_friends_like_these_who_needs_enemies
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proteusx
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cuck
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NeddySeagoon
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another systemd topic gone bad

Sorry about the few minutes in the dustbin. I clicked the wrong button.
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