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steveL
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
I think the (now thankfully dead) ion3 WM holds that crown. BS license, and the author actively went around harassing distros that tried to package it.
It's true it was never going to work as a free license, because you cannot force the user (recipient: so anyone downstream of you) to do anything, in this case upgrade.

Nevertheless, the guy had a point: distros were bundling really old versions, ie: two or three major versions behind, along with bugs that he'd already fixed in later versions; and he was expected to support their end-users, as every distro IRC room would simply point users at his channel.
(You try telling the average bindist end-user to upgrade their software from source, rather than the distro.)

The whole point of free software was meant to be about a collaborative environment between users, programmers and admins, without middle-men.
Yet (binary) distros are in exactly that position, and the programmer and team get screwed, lumbered with unpaid support on top of unpaid coding.

The least distros can do in the above situation, is keep the software reasonably up to date; after all, they're the ones making money out of the process.
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tld
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I write this I'm attempting to compile palemoon from the palemoon overlay (https://github.com/deuiore/palemoon-overlay.git). Not sure I have a lot of faith that it'll work. I had to reconfigure my PORTAGE_TMPDIR to a new directory with enough space and also had to use the PALEMOON_ENABLE_UNSUPPORTED_COMPILERS environment variable to bypass the fact that > gcc 4 is apparently not supported. Will see how it goes or not.

I didn't get a good feeling about the fact that I was unable to find out with any search what palemoon uses as a user home directory. Can anyone tell me what it used? Thanks in advance!

Tom
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tld wrote:
and also had to use the PALEMOON_ENABLE_UNSUPPORTED_COMPILERS environment variable to bypass the fact that > gcc 4 is apparently not supported.


You may need an environment file to tell it to use the old standard(s). I had to to do that to a package but other than that one, I was able to compile world with gcc 6.3.0 IIRC I compiled palemon-25.x with 5.4. I now do the binary downloads as it's a bear to build and performance is no better.

For the binaries: SRC_URI="http://linux.palemoon.org/datastore/release/palemoon-${PV}.en-US.linux-x86_64.tar.bz2"
For the source: ftp://ftp2.palemoon.org/

This statement (http://www.palemoon.org/sourcecode.shtml) rather flies in the face of Open Source philosophy:
Quote:
Pale Moon source code
This page is intended mainly for people interested in the code changes and people needing to audit the browser code for security purposes. As a regular user, you don't need the source code of the browser.
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tld
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, I'm running gcc 5.4 here. I'm also on a 32 bit machine so I'm really pushing things. I'll see how it goes. For me, the performance difference going from firefox-bin to compiled firefox was huge...not sure why, or if that would be the case with palemoon. I also wasn't happy with a lot of the -bin dependencies.

The world just plain seems to need a new browser from someone with a clue. It's really disheartening. Here's something FF has been doing to me that just about makes me throw my computer out the window:

I recently disabled NoScript, at least for now, because I just plain got tired of the entire web being broken...still not sure which I hate more...using it or not....that aside: Recently I'll be keying in a Google search and apparently the JS will start doing something that causes the text box to loose focus. By the time I notice I've keyed half of my search in the dialog for finding text on the current page...OMG...pushes me to the fucking edge.

Tom
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tld
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony0945 wrote:
This statement (http://www.palemoon.org/sourcecode.shtml) rather flies in the face of Open Source philosophy:
Quote:
Pale Moon source code
This page is intended mainly for people interested in the code changes and people needing to audit the browser code for security purposes. As a regular user, you don't need the source code of the browser.
It sure does...not to mention the stuff you previously discussed about them requiring the license agreement to be in the correct font, making it impossible in plain text...FFS. I've yet to see too much that makes be feel all that much better about the palemoon devs than I do about the FF devs frankly.

For example...again...can some one please tell me where palemoon stores it's crap under a user home in Linux...since it's apparently a deep dark secret. That sort of crap is inexcusable to me.

Tom
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tdude
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For example...again...can some one please tell me where palemoon stores it's crap under a user home in Linux...since it's apparently a deep dark secret.


~/.moonchild\ productions/pale\ moon/
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tld
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow...I guess I should tone down the complaints a bit ;). I've installed www-client/palemoon-27.4.1 from the palemoon overlay (https://github.com/deuiore/palemoon-overlay.git) with gcc 5.4.0 apparently without a hitch in about the same time it takes for me to compile FF. Given the system I'm on that's saying a lot. Haven't used it too much as yet, but it's looking pretty awesome. Clearly using way less RAM than FF for sure.

I think, though I can't be sure, that the required tmp space that ebuild requires (7 GB I believe it was...enough where I had to relocate my PORTAGE_TMPDIR) may be really overstated. I can't be sure but I don't think it ever used more than 2.

Looking good though.

Tom
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tld
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMG...I have to admit, I am LOVING palemoon. It makes me realize just how far downhill firefox has gone. I've found sites that literally respond several times faster in palemoon than in FF...crazy.

Between that and finally managing to jettison the Godless nvidia-drivers (where my required legacy 304.xx driver won't play nice with the 4.12 kernel as usual) in favor of nouveau I'm on a roll here :D.

Tom
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LIsLinuxIsSogood
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just reading the history on this thread for the browser package and wondering if the only reason it has not been included in the main gentoo repo is because of this licensing issue? Seems bizarre but I guess as long as there is an overlay that allows it, then why bother trying to hassle the upstream developers for permission??

From a user standpoint though it is just unfortunate that the only way i had to learn about such packages is not through my usual search with emerge or eix database query. And of course that means I am late to chime in on this topic, but I have had no complaints with FF as my primary browser. The other ones I use are Opera or on occasion Luakit. Why would someone want to switch to the Palemoon? Could someone please confirm the advantage of using this browser as anything beyond the low memory usage, which is certainly beneficial but hardly the criteria I care most about when it comes to using the WWW.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LIsLinuxIsSogood wrote:
Why would someone want to switch to the Palemoon? Could someone please confirm the advantage of using this browser as anything beyond the low memory usage, which is certainly beneficial but hardly the criteria I care most about when it comes to using the WWW.
The user interface doesn't change. FF seems to change every version. The PM interface is basically FF before Australis.
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've switched over to palemoon for most browsing, keeping FF for a backup, if needed.

Running the latest 27.9.0 with no problems.
_________________
Asus m5a99fx, FX 8320 - nouveau & radeon, oss4
Acer laptop E5-575, i3-7100u - i965, alsa
---both---
4.14.62 kernel, profile 17.0 (no-pie) amd64-no-multilib
gcc 4.9.4 & 7.3.0, eudev, openrc, openbox, palemoon
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Yamakuzure
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, that time I tried, Palemoon forces you to use gcc-4. There were some versions which could be built with gcc-6, but when that ceased to work, I threw it off my machines.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As of 27.7.2, it builds with gcc-6.4.0 and probably higher.
I haven't built it in a long while, instead using my own palemoon-bin ebuild.
Code:
EAPI=6

inherit eutils xdg-utils gnome2-utils

DESCRIPTION="ebuild for palemoon browser binary install"

HOMEPAGE="http://www.palemoon.org"

SRC_URI="http://linux.palemoon.org/datastore/release/palemoon-${PV}.en-US.linux-x86_64.tar.bz2"

SLOT="0"

KEYWORDS="~amd64"

RESTRICT="mirror"

IUSE=" "

DEPEND=""

#all runtime dependencies are contained in downloaded tarball
RDEPEND="${DEPEND}"

S="${WORKDIR}"

src_install() {
        mkdir "${S}"/palemoon-bin
        cp -R "${S}"/palemoon/* "${S}"/palemoon-bin
# files will be installed to /opt rather than /usr/bin
        insinto /opt
# the untarred files are in  work/palemoon
# this command copies them from there to /opt/palemoon-bin  (not /opt as you might think)
        doins  -r  "${S}"/palemoon-bin
        dodir /usr/bin
        dosym "${ED%/}"/opt/palemoon-bin/palemoon-bin /usr/bin/palemoon-bin

# following cribbed from firefox-bin ebuild
        local size sizes icon_path icon name
        sizes="16 32 48"
        icon_path="${S}/palemoon-bin/browser/chrome/icons/default"
        icon="${PN}"
        name="Palemoon"

        # Install icons and .desktop for menu entry
        for size in ${sizes}; do
                insinto "/usr/share/icons/hicolor/${size}x${size}/apps"
                newins "${icon_path}/default${size}.png" "${icon}.png" || die
        done
        # The 128x128 icon has a different name
        insinto "/usr/share/icons/hicolor/128x128/apps"
        newins "${S}/palemoon-bin/browser/icons/mozicon128.png" "${icon}.png" || die
        # Install a 48x48 icon into /usr/share/pixmaps for legacy DEs
        newicon "${S}"/palemoon-bin/browser/chrome/icons/default/default48.png ${PN}.png
        domenu "${FILESDIR}"/icon/${PN}.desktop
}

pkg_postinst()
{
        chmod +x /opt/palemoon-bin/palemoon-bin
        gnome2_icon_cache_update
        xdg_desktop_database_update
}

pkg_postrm()
{
        gnome2_icon_cache_update
        xdg_desktop_database_update
}


My non-bin ebuild was the overlay ebuild with fixes, one of which was eliminating "GCC_SUPPORTED_VERSIONS".
The author won't provide support for higher than gcc-4, but it does build and work. It just doesn't seem to be any better than the bin version that moonchild provides as a tarball. The same comment applies to Firefox. Your mileage may vary. I have a rather slow ISP and fast CPU so I don't notice any difference.

dektop entry http://dpaste.com/0Q4Q6ZF
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LIsLinuxIsSogood
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does the ebuild you created exist locally for you? How does it find the latest version from upstream, and can it update over time? In other words would you recommend merging with or without —oneshot option for later world set updates.
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Tony0945
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's located in /usr/local/portage/www-client/palemoon-bin.
Every now and then I check "About Palemoon" "Release Notes"
Which I just did and noted that 27.9.2 was released 7 days ago.
So I (as root):
Code:
cd /usr/local/portage/www-client/palemoon-bin
nano  palemoon-bin-27.9.1.ebuild
(save it as palemoon-bin-27.9.2.ebuild)
repoman manifest
emerge -auvND palemoon-bin
(it offers 27.9.2 and I hit enter)
28 seconds later it is installed.

The same should happen if you compile instead of using the tarball, but it will take longer than 28 seconds!
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