The FSF doesn't endorse Gentoo?

1clue · Advocate Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569

steveL,

There is no problem with the GPL. There is a problem with people who carelessly link GPL code to closed-source code. I merely pointed out some of those issues and how such linkage may not be in the control of the people who wrote the closed-source code to begin with.

I also pointed out my personal dislike of Richard Stallman and his attitudes toward software. That's not a direct slam on RMS or the GPL. I hold similar attitudes toward Larry Ellison, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. The four have always had what I consider to be extremist views on software licensing. Edit: I hold those similar attitudes for the same reasons: They each feel that all software should be licensed the way THEY think it should be licensed.

When linking to any library outside of your control, you need to pay attention to the licenses involved just so you understand what's going on. If you know the license then you pretty much know when you're treading close to the edge of legality.

Really, really, really, I think we chewed the flavor out of this discussion. I still want to drop it.

Yamakuzure · Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:29 am Post subject:

Real FOSS, with 'F' really meaning 'free', uses the unlicense or the WTFPL. ;-)

pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20067

Ant P. · Watchman Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 6920

steveL · Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:54 pm Post subject:

steveL · Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:57 pm Post subject:

pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20067

1clue · Advocate Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569

@steveL,

Looking back on some of our argument, I find what I wrote confusing even though I know the point I was trying to make. I don't expect anyone else to understand what I wrote or even its underlying idea, based on the hastily worded rants on the previous pages of this thread.

That's the problem when the discussion gets too intense. We word things in an awkward way and then others misunderstand what we were talking about.

In the end I find that I wasted a whole lot of time trying and failing to explain a hypothetical situation. Since it's hypothetical I really doesn't matter to anyone.

When you're typing fast enough the keys start to get hot, you need to step back and spend time with the kids. Advice to myself, and maybe others will find it helpful too.

Peace.

steveL · Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:30 am Post subject:

steveL · Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:35 am Post subject:

pjp · Administrator Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 20067

Dominique_71 · Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:07 am Post subject:

Yamakuzure · Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:21 pm Post subject:

steveL · Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:01 pm Post subject:

khayyam · Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:10 pm Post subject:

1clue · Advocate Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 2569

Hu · Moderator Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 21607

steveL · Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:53 pm Post subject:

steveL · Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:02 pm Post subject:

Hu · Moderator Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 21607

I agree, paid intermediaries as distributors are unnecessary in almost all cases now. There will probably always be some niche uses for them, but generally, they are not needed in that role. However, one place where a paid intermediary can still try to offer value is in an integration/testing role. "We warrant that this particular combination of packages at these versions has been tested to achieve popular goals #1-#N. Our installer will put everything together and guide you through installing a production system that complies with local regulations." "We warrant that these packages were tested to verify immunity to popular attacks #1-#N." etc.

steveL · Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:41 pm Post subject:

Hu: indeed, and that level of assurance is what sells support contracts, which are the golden-egg.

However, if we look at the "history", the real aim is for groups of users to get together and support each other, in collaboration; that in fact is where all the distributions came from, and will always be where they draw their workers from.

That is why they've spent so many years (since before RedHat got bought out) conditioning the userbase, both to accept edicts from "on high" as if they were Law, and to be "grateful" for "all the stuff we're giving you for FREE!".

Poeterring is the most brazen exponent of this, but he's very much the tip of an iceberg.

Note that "all this stuff" we're getting "for free" is in fact the end-product of decades of community collaboration.

It was never free: it cost years of sweat, labour and self-sacrifice on the part of thousands of quiet, dedicated sysadmins and programmers, who worked in "Data Processing" when it was boring and no-one else gave a damn about us, or the work.

So no, you can't sell it back to us. It's already ours.

As for warranting that stuff works, we can do that ourselves, thanks. We've been doing it for decades already, remember? That's why you even have an Internet to flood with propaganda.

Ultimately, it costs us much less to work with each other, pro bono, than to put up with (and pay for) this crap.

Ant P. · Watchman Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 6920

steveL · Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 5:51 pm Post subject:

Ant P. · Watchman Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 6920

Yeah, now you mention it, those parts seem a bit strong. They read like reactions to mickey mouse laws and Oracle but it seems like they'd cause medium-sized projects friction too.