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depontius
Advocate
Joined: 05 May 2004
Posts: 3509
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 Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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The joke at the time was "windowsCE windowsME windowsNT - CEMENT".
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.sigs waste space and bandwidth |
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Tony0945
Watchman
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 5127
Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| pun_guin wrote: | My main development machine is still on Windows. What am I doing wrong?
Seriously, I liked Windows Me. |
I considered it unstable and a step down from Win98SE. IMHO Win7 was a step down from XP except for supporting 64 bit. 64 bit XP would have been great. It eisted but I never had it.
Everyone hated Win 8 and Win10 is spyware. Did you ever read the user agreement? |
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Zucca
Moderator
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 3342
Location: Rasi, Finland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| Tony0945 wrote: | | Did you ever read the user agreement? |
The only thing most people will read from those argeements is "I AGREE", and then click.
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..: Zucca :..
Gentoo IRC channels reside on Libera.Chat.
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| Quote: | | I am NaN! I am a man! |
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depontius
Advocate
Joined: 05 May 2004
Posts: 3509
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:01 am Post subject: |
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I have Win10 on my laptop. It's there because every now and then you need Windows, and if you're going to have to have it, you should have a version that's in service and going to be in service through the life of the machine.
That said, so far the primary use of Win10 has been to update Win10. The other "necessary" use is to update our Garmin GPS. The laptop spends all of its useful (other than updating the Garmin once or twice a year) time booted to Gentoo. Win10 can't spy if it's not running, and the amount of time it is running will give a really weird picture of me.
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krinn
Watchman
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 7470
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| Zucca wrote: | | Tony0945 wrote: | | Did you ever read the user agreement? |
The only thing most people will read from those argeements is "I AGREE", and then click. |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ23kosLFec  |
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pun_guin
Apprentice
Joined: 06 Feb 2018
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Tony0945 wrote: | | IMHO Win7 was a step down from XP |
There was Vista between them.
| Tony0945 wrote: | | Everyone hated Win 8 and Win10 is spyware. |
I think your definition of "spyware" is too broad.
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I already use the new Genthree. |
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Tony0945
Watchman
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 5127
Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| pun_guin wrote: | | There was Vista between them. |
Most people agree that Vista is best forgotten. |
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krinn
Watchman
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 7470
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| pun_guin wrote: | | Tony0945 wrote: | | Everyone hated Win 8 and Win10 is spyware. |
I think your definition of "spyware" is too broad. |
Well, i myself think it's too shy, because win10 was only made with spying in mind, everything in it is spying, and you need a simple duckduckgo search to see that even privacy options set to maximum, it still leak infos from you. |
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Yamakuzure
Advocate
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 2284
Location: Adendorf, Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:39 am Post subject: |
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As its been a while, I'd like to throw in two quotes from our beloved dark Emperor, which, in succession, are quite the joke.
| [systemd-devel] Lennart Poettering, Sat May 31 2014 wrote: | (...)we already made clear that soon after kdbus is merged into
the kernel we'll probably make a hard requirement on it from the systemd
side.
(...)
Unless the systemd-haters prepare another
kdbus userspace until then this will effectively also mean that we will
not support non-systemd systems with udev anymore starting at that
point. Gentoo folks, this is your wakeup call. |
While browsing through some commits, I found this beauty:
| [systemd commit 1a86b08] Lennart Poettering, Thu Jan 11 2018 wrote: | | sd-bus: drop bloom stuff, it's not needed anymore since kdbus is gone |
I think we were quite right in not waking up and preparing "another kdbus userspace". 
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Important German:- "Aha" - German reaction to pretend that you are really interested while giving no f*ck.
- "Tja" - German reaction to the apocalypse, nuclear war, an alien invasion or no bread in the house.
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khayyam
Watchman
Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Posts: 6227
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Yamakuzure wrote: | | I think we were quite right in not waking up and preparing "another kdbus userspace". :lol: |
Yamakuzure ... "tonight tonight, my plans I make, tomorrow tomorrow, the baby I take. The queen will never win the game, for Rumpelstiltskin is my name" :)
best ... khay |
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steveL
Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Yamakuzure wrote: | | I think we were quite right in not waking up and preparing "another kdbus userspace". :lol: |
Lul, I must agree.
ISTR at least two or three gentoo devs spouting that nonsense at me, with the usual crap about "providing code."
I wonder when Poeterring's brain will finally get an ACK, to the wake-up signal it sends his mind, every time he proves himself an idiot.
I have never read anyone with so little self-insight.
It take a man to be such a stubborn pighead, with so little self-awareness, ime. |
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krinn
Watchman
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 7470
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| Yamakuzure wrote: | | I think we were quite right in not waking up and preparing "another kdbus userspace". |
I was thinking were we first saw this and found it, it's here (with the original link, so everyone could enjoy the date)
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-7621894.html#7621894
and because i laught myself reading my "rules for proper propaganda" i have made there, seriously i wrote this? I'm good damn it! |
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i4dnf
Apprentice
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 271
Location: Bucharest, Romania
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khayyam
Watchman
Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Posts: 6227
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| i4dnf wrote: | | Does this kind of reliance on systemd qualify as systemd based malware? |
i4dnf ... no, not really. The script could have added the service to a non-systemd host, if it was written with other service-managers in mind. As it was Arch it was a known quantity that systemd would be in use, hence that was the methodology used to have the malware run periodically.
best ... khay |
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steveL
Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| i4dnf wrote: | | Does this kind of reliance on systemd qualify as systemd based malware? |
| khayyam wrote: | | i4dnf ... no, not really. The script could have added the service to a non-systemd host, if it was written with other service-managers in mind. As it was Arch it was a known quantity that systemd would be in use, hence that was the methodology used to have the malware run periodically. |
Where I come from, that makes systemdbust the attack-vector, and thus it is indeed systemd-based malware.
Any time you're targeting a known quantity, that logic applies. |
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Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6098
Location: Dallas area
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Yamakuzure wrote: | | I think we were quite right in not waking up and preparing "another kdbus userspace". |
Indeed, even dbus-1 (kdbus incarnation v2.x or was it v3.x) seems like it's been put on the back burner in favor of speeding up dbus itself.
At least that's what I gather from something I read on phoronix a few weeks back.
IIRC that was the gist of what Linus told them, "before you go mucking around in the kernel, make dbus itself faster because you might not need kernel stuff then."
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Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6098
Location: Dallas area
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| depontius wrote: | I have Win10 on my laptop. It's there because every now and then you need Windows, and if you're going to have to have it, you should have a version that's in service and going to be in service through the life of the machine.
That said, so far the primary use of Win10 has been to update Win10. The other "necessary" use is to update our Garmin GPS. The laptop spends all of its useful (other than updating the Garmin once or twice a year) time booted to Gentoo. Win10 can't spy if it's not running, and the amount of time it is running will give a really weird picture of me. |
I bought an acer laptop that came with win 10 ready to install.
The first thing I did was take out that hd (regular laptop hdd) and replace it with an ssd which I then installed win7 as I had it laying around.
My reasoning is Win 7 will be around for a while. Even if they quit doing security updates, it doesn't mean it won't boot and run, for the few times I really need windows.
The only thing I've used it for (the win side) is my SIL needed it to update his garmin.
Otherwise I run linux on it.
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PRIME x570-pro, 3700x, 6.1 zen kernel
gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland |
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Tony0945
Watchman
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 5127
Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Anon-E-moose wrote: | | The first thing I did was take out that hd (regular laptop hdd) and replace it with an ssd which I then installed win7 as I had it laying around. |
Good if you have Win7 drivers available. I think these will start disappearing as XP drivers have. Still, I imagine you could install in a virtual machine running on Linux as you wouldn't need keyboard, mouse, display and disk drivers. I did experiment with XP in a Gentoo VMware VM. It will run my MsMoney quite nicely. My other Windows programs are Turbotax, SageTV and VideoRedo. All run (for now) on Win7. I may be abandoning Turbotax since I realized that i can use the IRS fillable forms and spreadsheets to to generate the data. My income and expenses don't vary much from year to year and the TurboTax user interface is getting obnoxious, trying to sell an add-on at practically every click.
SageTV has an Ubuntu version but I'm having trouble getting it to build on Gentoo. It uses a java graedle. I thought I could use it on the XP VM, but it needs TV card drivers not available with VM ware. Last year I worked on a from scratch workalike replacement using wxGTK instead of java but it's only Beta quality. Haven't tried VideoRedo in VM but v3 works in Wine (v5 is current, still works in XP but 7 listed as required). It should work in VM as it only reads files, manipulates the data and writes files. (The Wine problem is video display). I prefer Imgburn (CD/DVD freeware) to any Linux program I've tried, but ImgBurn works well on Wine although the moderators keep throwing out my reviews.
EDIT:
Microsoft let you transfer your license to the VM? |
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Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6098
Location: Dallas area
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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I did have to go to intel and a couple of other vendors for win7 drivers for the newer hardware in the acer.
The laptop is dual-boot, not win7 in a VM, although I have played around with installing and running win7 in a VM in the past.
But since I bought and paid for the software and only use it on one machine, I'm not particularly caring what MS likes or doesn't, although if you do it more than once, you'll have to call them to get it activated.
Edit to add: MS doesn't like you to reuse a license as they are in the business of selling you a new one, but legally they have to allow you to reuse it, say the old computer dies, you change motherboards, etc.
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PRIME x570-pro, 3700x, 6.1 zen kernel
gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland |
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Ant P.
Watchman
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 6920
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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I've been thinking about that lately. Gentoo is more like: Portage, the ebuilds (all of them), and the community. There's still the clear boundary between it and upstream, but none of these three pillars have any meaning without the other two.
Any project that pretends its community doesn't matter or exist becomes sick quickly — we can see that with RedHat, Oracle, browsers, … or closer to home: things like the current OpenRC/baselayout most of us prefer to avoid.
Keeping Gentoo healthy is an ongoing struggle. |
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asturm
Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 8935
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Ant P. wrote: | | things like the current OpenRC/baselayout most of us prefer to avoid. |
You mean "us" being a vocal minority in Gentoo Chat? |
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axl
Veteran
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1144
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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gentoo, in my humble opinion, has some old obsolete useflag openrc. which might have given some people the impression that is the last openrc distro out there. some people champion that idea. which is wrong.
I know neddy is not a systemd funboy, but he is right. at this point if you want a systemd free distro, gentoo is not your home. you would have to fork the repository. or create an overlay. portage as flexible as it is, will not allow you to run an openrc gentoo unless you hack at it. at this point, saying is openrc friendly is just plain out lying.
The simple fact is, devs go where other devs go. People who want a distro ... can make their own distro. Good luck with that. Make your own Linux from Scratch. |
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Naib
Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6051
Location: Removed by Neddy
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| axl wrote: | gentoo, in my humble opinion, has some old obsolete useflag openrc. which might have given some people the impression that is the last openrc distro out there. some people champion that idea. which is wrong.
I know neddy is not a systemd funboy, but he is right. at this point if you want a systemd free distro, gentoo is not your home. you would have to fork the repository. or create an overlay. portage as flexible as it is, will not allow you to run an openrc gentoo unless you hack at it. at this point, saying is openrc friendly is just plain out lying.
The simple fact is, devs go where other devs go. People who want a distro ... can make their own distro. Good luck with that. Make your own Linux from Scratch. |
and yet many are using Gentoo and are systemd free
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axl
Veteran
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1144
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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that's why u're crowd looks for major rollback upstream?
at this point it's kernel, systemd, gnome. any other component you would like to freeze in time forever?
EDIT: here's a simple question? why do you update? hold at that version that you find to satisfy you. why impose this on everyone else? U could just install like redhat 6 which had gnome 2.2 and be happy. be happy in that timeline. everyone else wants to move on. do you not understand systemd? it's hard to understand what a service file does? what a target file does? what a socket file does?
Last edited by axl on Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Naib
Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6051
Location: Removed by Neddy
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| axl wrote: | that's why u're crowd looks for major rollback upstream?
at this point it's kernel, systemd, gnome. any other component you would like to freeze in time forever? |
Not sure I srs.., I have plenty of up to date parts on my system.
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