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pjp
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
This isn't GWB's party anymore. If they (the GOP) go through with this, their NRA support is gone.
The GOP hasn't been about conservatism for decades, so as long as they get their stipend, they won't care that it doesn't come from the NRA.


Naib wrote:
society are getting sick of seeing this happen and nothing is being done
I agree, and banning something scaawwy wooking isn't doing anything to address the problem.
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flysideways
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
pjp wrote:
For all of the Democrat threats to the second amendment, the real threat may have just arrived.

$

Prominent Republican Donor Issues Ultimatum on Assault Weapons
Quote:
A prominent Republican political donor demanded on Saturday that the party pass legislation to restrict access to guns, and vowed not to contribute to any candidates or electioneering groups that did not support a ban on the sale of military-style firearms to civilians.

Al Hoffman Jr., a Florida-based real estate developer who was a leading fund-raiser for George W. Bush’s campaigns, said he would seek to marshal support among other Republican political donors for a renewed assault weapons ban.
what did I say... 5 posts up. Society sets the direction and society are getting sick of seeing this happen and nothing is being done to mitigate this very american problem.

A donor has threatened to pull money, the NRA could threaten to pull money... before you know it an independent politician comes in with ties to none BUT has the voice of the community. If a viable, workable, implementable (and done quickly with visible changes) doesn't occur soon it won't be long...
The celebrities are getting in on this, they have seen how much they can swing public opinion with the #MeToo & it is now being focused on to guns


The major donor for Jeb! who told Rubio to stay outta the race. Yeah, he's not leveraging this for his agenda.

While the NYT is on about this, who's gonna ask Carlos Slim what he is doing at home about the murder rate there? Don't tell me it is about drugs, I've spent 25 years in an industry that the Federal Government requires the employees of to be drug tested. They can require it of us but won't live by those rules themselves. Those are your deaths not mine.

No-one cares like this about the murders in Chicago. Is that because they are only blacks, you (those who don't think Chicago murders merit action, not you Naib) racist fucks? Or is it just because this leverages the agenda?

If armed guards don't promote the safety of those being guarded, why do the Pols and Oligarchs still have armed security details? We can be disarmed but not them or their security details. It sucks being less equal.

Why is their safety more important than that of my children?


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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
...

Perhaps, but I suspect not so much. Watching everyone respond to Sandy Hook taught me something: When faced with a crisis, individual entities will approach the problem with a solution most compatible with their existing value system. New York and California responded by passing more stringent gun regulations while Texas instituted a school marshal program. So in this way, a value system can be seen as a toolbox to address problems that arise in your life.

This is a two-edged sword, naturally. While it keeps people from being wishy-washy, it also makes them stubborn.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
Perhaps, but I suspect not so much. Watching everyone respond to Sandy Hook taught me something: When faced with a crisis, individual entities will approach the problem with a solution most compatible with their existing value system. New York and California responded by passing more stringent gun regulations while Texas instituted a school marshal program.

I think that is an insightful way to look at it.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
We need larger "Gun Free Zone" signs at these schools. Apparently these people are unaware they are not allowed to have a gun on school property.
I think the communities need to get more anti-gun. Each time something sickening happens the communities get together against gun violence but others outside the communities don't feel the same way. It's the typical "not my problem until it's on my doorstep"
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Columbine Survivor, House Minority Leader Patrick Neville Introduces Legislation Allowing Concealed Carry in Schools
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
Naib wrote:
...

Perhaps, but I suspect not so much. Watching everyone respond to Sandy Hook taught me something: When faced with a crisis, individual entities will approach the problem with a solution most compatible with their existing value system. New York and California responded by passing more stringent gun regulations while Texas instituted a school marshal program. So in this way, a value system can be seen as a toolbox to address problems that arise in your life.

This is a two-edged sword, naturally. While it keeps people from being wishy-washy, it also makes them stubborn.


This type of training should be an integral piece required to obtain a CPL or CCW. Any shooting that happens outside of a homeowners own property, should not be eligible for justification of self defense, unless the shooter has a CPL or CCW. Notice that I am not saying regulate ownership of guns any further than we are currently doing. I think it is totally in keeping with the idea of a well regulated militia for private citizens who want to carry a concealed weapon in public to be required to have this training and that they should be able to act as a marshall, should the duty to act arise. In my opinion acting in defense of the community is part and parcel of being in a militia.

And further, open carry should not be a thing, except in specified circumstances. E.g Police officers on duty, military on duty, hunter or sportsman actively pursuing their sport, armed guard on duty, etc.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

o'bogamol wrote:
Any shooting that happens outside of a homeowners own property, should not be eligible for justification of self defense, unless the shooter has a CPL or CCW.
Neither CPL nor CCW on their own add credibility to a person's ability to determine justification of self defense.

o'bogamol wrote:
And further, open carry should not be a thing, except in specified circumstances. E.g Police officers on duty, military on duty, hunter or sportsman actively pursuing their sport, armed guard on duty, etc.
Banning open carry only further creates a stigma of law-abiding citizens. If people learn what responsible use of firearms looks like, they won't reet when they see a person behaving responsibly.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
o'bogamol wrote:
Any shooting that happens outside of a homeowners own property, should not be eligible for justification of self defense, unless the shooter has a CPL or CCW.
Neither CPL nor CCW on their own add credibility to a person's ability to determine justification of self defense.


Not without adequate training, it doesn't. You're right. That's why I am advocating additional training as a mandate for civilian concealed carry. It is something to be taken seriously. Deescalation training ought to be part of the CPL program as well. If you can't tell when a situation is self defense, then you have no business running around town with a firearm.

pjp wrote:
o'bogamol wrote:
And further, open carry should not be a thing, except in specified circumstances. E.g Police officers on duty, military on duty, hunter or sportsman actively pursuing their sport, armed guard on duty, etc.
Banning open carry only further creates a stigma of law-abiding citizens. If people learn what responsible use of firearms looks like, they won't reet when they see a person behaving responsibly.


We aren't anywhere near that at the moment, at least not in Michigan.

I am willing to look at this from another perspective, but I don't currently see any benefits to citizen open carry in general everyday circumstances. I
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I open carry whenever I go hike up Table Rock Mountain.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
...while Texas instituted a school marshal program.
That is a sad indictment of your country. Aren't you disgusted and appalled?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take it you have no buildings or institutions in the UK protected by security.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

o'bogamol wrote:
Not without adequate training, it doesn't. You're right. That's why I am advocating additional training as a mandate for civilian concealed carry. It is something to be taken seriously. Deescalation training ought to be part of the CPL program as well. If you can't tell when a situation is self defense, then you have no business running around town with a firearm.
But that isn't relevant to concealment. And if someone can't determine self-defense without training, there is a credible argument that they lack the same ability in their home. My point there is when trials use that as a demonstration of "lack of competence." It seems like a significant risk to self defense.

I'm not opposed to requiring training for self defense use of firearms, but it does seem to add significant restrictions to the second amendment. Having "classes" of training similar to a driver's license doesn't seem unreasonable. Collector (non-use), Range Only, Hunting (small game / big game?). Separately, Self defense, home / general. And maybe something like Citizen First Responder. Similar to a volunteer fire department. But with any of that, the second amendment becomes something very different, and perhaps is effectively legislated into effective non-existence. Counterproductive to the amendment's intended purpose of overthrowing a tyrannical government.

o'bogamol wrote:
We aren't anywhere near that at the moment, at least not in Michigan.

I am willing to look at this from another perspective, but I don't currently see any benefits to citizen open carry in general everyday circumstances. I
It's not significant.y different than gun racks during hunting season. Requiring concealed carry only serves to demonize firearms just because they exist. Are you less at risk because you don't see the handgun? No. You're probably more at risk. A thug with a hidden weapon is a threat. Banning open carry seems comparable to banning scary looking accessories. What do you consider a benefit to banning open carry?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
I take it you have no buildings or institutions in the UK protected by security.
So you're equating a high school with the white house?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.wnd.com/2018/02/stunning-list-cops-stop-dozens-of-school-attacks-before-they-happen/

I would like to know how many of these come from a single mother family.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokey wrote:
Old School wrote:
I take it you have no buildings or institutions in the UK protected by security.
So you're equating a high school with the white house?
I'm sorry if you think the White house is the only institution protected by security. Apparently you have never been to an airport or used public transportation.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaglover wrote:
http://www.wnd.com/2018/02/stunning-list-cops-stop-dozens-of-school-attacks-before-they-happen/

I would like to know how many of these come from a single mother family.
While the actual shootups grab the headlines due to the deaths, the failed attempts are really damning for America...

ZOMG!!! School shooting!!!
butbutbut we stopped dozens!!!!


what has happened to American society hat people resort to initiating this. Why do soo many people have "easy access" to initiate such attempts
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally, the rational voice on the 2nd amendment we've been waiting for.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Finally, the rational voice on the 2nd amendment we've been waiting for.


68 views. Is that your sister? Her lips look like they were made for BJ #meBJ
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zixnub wrote:
Muso wrote:
Finally, the rational voice on the 2nd amendment we've been waiting for.


68 views. Is that your sister? Her lips look like they were made for BJ #meBJ


She's here to help
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
what has happened to American society hat people resort to initiating this. Why do soo many people have "easy access" to initiate such attempts

When over 50% of all births are to out of wedlock parents, when so many of our kids are raised by single mothers and added to the lack of empathy for life, when SSRIs are handed out like candy, is it any wonder these things happen.

When I was in High School, just about every boy's car or pickup had a rifle hanging during deer and elk season, and no one thought a thing about it, and there were no school shootings. Liberal societal changes have been a total disaster, but it is easy to blame all ills on an inanimate object.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Screw deer rifles. The USMC weapon of choice for amphibious assaults (M1 Carbine) has been on the market since right after WW2. It was a really popular ranch rifle.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Finally, the rational voice on the 2nd amendment we've been waiting for.
I've tried to keep some advice I once heard in the back of my mind, just in case it might ever be relevant: You've got to put a whole lot of gone between you and a broad like that!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
You've got to put a whole lot of gone between you and a broad like that!


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Berta, 2.5 Men.
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